Post-workout insulin spike bad when cutting?

[SteelWeaver]

I shouldn't go to the diet forum - I always find stuff there that disrupts my peaceful I've-got-it-all-worked-out-for-now state of mind.

Anyway - anyone have any thoughts on this? Do you use high GI or low GI carbs post w/o when cutting?

 

[Rémy!]

Post-workout insulin spikes are very usefull as they increase the absorbtion / uptake of other nutrients such as protein or creatine. It is not bad for cutting, as long as you take the high concentrations of sugars after workouts only.

Seing as your body after a workout is depleted of nutrients - this is a good time (and almost the only time) to take high-GI carbs such as dextrose/sucrose/fructose they won't get digested just uptaken into the blood stream fast, which will enable you to get more out of the protein from your post workout shake. Blending some more complex carbs (lower GI) is also not a bad idea - but most utilize the faster GI post workout.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thanks Rémy! That's just what I thought, but then I saw a bunch of people at the diet forum saying they either don't take carbs, or not high GI one's post w/o when cutting, so I got to wondering ...

 

[BigEasy]

Actually fructose is a poor choice of sugar to cause an insulin spike.

I'll post more on that later, but stick to dextrose for the insulin spike and DO add in some complex carbs as Rémy! recommends.

[Edited to remove stupid mistake)

 

[wilson6]

Remy,

Can you explain this statement?

'carbs such as dextrose/sucrose/fructose they won't get digested just uptaken into the blood stream fast"

W6

 

[diamonddiceclay]

when cutting-you don't need post w/o carbs-just eat a high protein meal

 

[Robboe]

Big easy, sucrose is a poor choice also. It is half glucose and half fructose.

Fructose needs to be processed in the liver into glucose and is not broken down into glucose in the gut like most carbs [or even the mouth.] Because of this, most of the glucose never quite reaches the blood stream and this is why fructose is said to replenish more liver glycogen than muscle glycogen. Also, this process takes a bit more time so an insulin spike never quite ensues. There's also the factor of fructose predominantly coming from fruit. Fruit has more fibre and this slows digestion down further. At the end of the day, frut and fructose are poor choices for post training.

I actually consume complex, low GI carbs post workout when cutting. The spike, albeit providing anabolic conditions also provides fat storing conditions. I prefer complex carbs with low GI for 'stable' insulin levels. This way i also don't feel tired or fatiqued when the spiked levels drop too. And since my post training meal is the last meal of the day with active carbs i want some sort of sustainance. of course it's totally up to you. As long as you're consuming less calories than you burn off you'll lose the weight.

 

[Robboe]

when cutting-you don't need post w/o carbs-just eat a high protein meal

That is an expensive way to replenish glycogen stores!

The protein will be converted into glucose via gluconeogenesis to replenish the glycogen stores. Maybe if you eat some fat along with it [like NHE style] then fair enough...


also, if it's a whey shake you consume after training, on it's own, will digest rather quickly and most will prolly be oxidised by the liver.

 

[Rémy!]

Remy,

Can you explain this statement?

'carbs such as dextrose/sucrose/fructose they won't get digested just uptaken into the blood stream fast"

W6

Monosaccharides (single sugar molecules) deliver energy to the body quickly as they do not need to be digested into smaller pieces before absorption takes place. Glucose and fructose are the two most common dietary monosaccharides. The linking of two monosaccharides results in a disaccharide, while long chains of sugar molecules are referred to as complex carbohydrates or polysaccharides.

Most dietary carbohydrates come from food molecules made up of the two monosaccharides sucrose (found in familiar table or cane sugar, apples, bananas, oranges) and lactose (milk sugar found in dairy products), and from complex carbohydrates or starches which are primarily supplied by grains. Before they can be absorbed from the intestinal tract, all disaccharides and complex carbohydrates must first be digested and converted back to a monosaccharide or single sugar form.

I was using the (dextrose/sucrose/fructose) statement to show examples of high GI sugars, not the best sources. I don't reccomend fructose or sucrose for the athlete.

Fructose does not need insulin for its transport into the cell and is preferentially extracted from the blood stream by the liver (versus the muscle cell). (Int J Sport Nutr 1997 Jun;7(2):117-27) looked at the metabolism of glucose versus fructose eaten as a preexercise meal from 180 to 90 min before exercise in 6 subjects. it appeared that fructose had no advantage (and perhaps even a disadvantage) to glucose as an immediate carbohydrate energy source and glycogen sparing drink when ingested DURING exercise.

 

[wilson6]

"Fructose does not need insulin for its transport into the cell and is preferentially extracted from the blood stream by the liver (versus the muscle cell). (Int J Sport Nutr 1997 Jun;7(2):117-27) looked at the metabolism of glucose versus fructose eaten as a preexercise meal from 180 to 90 min before exercise in 6 subjects. it appeared that fructose had no advantage (and perhaps even a disadvantage) to glucose as an immediate carbohydrate energy source and glycogen sparing drink when ingested DURING exercise."

Correct.

"Monosaccharides (single sugar molecules) deliver energy to the body quickly as they do not need to be digested into smaller pieces before absorption takes place."

True, but I'm not sold on the contention that "digestion" in the case of carbohydrases makes much difference if you're starting with glucose (monosaccharide) or maltodextrin (polysaccharide). In fact, both produce similar blood glucose and insulin responses ( ANNALS OF NUTRITION AND METABOLISM. vol. 32, no. 1 (1988): 23-9.). The -ases act very quickly and the end result is similar.

The other point that needs to be made here is that fructose is passively absorbed by the gut while glucose is actively absorbed. Another reason not to use fructose as it can cause osmotic diarrhea.

AND,

I completely agree with this.

"Post-workout insulin spikes are very usefull as they increase the absorbtion / uptake of other nutrients such as protein or creatine. It is not bad for cutting, as long as you take the high concentrations of sugars after workouts only."

Sugars = maltodextrin or glucose, not table sugar.

W6