Post-workout insulin spike bad when cutting?

[‡ÅnãBöLïK]

W6, and Remy, how do you feel about claims by food processors that maltodextrin rich products, like Splenda, have no insulin response? I have heard the arguments that a one teaspoon sugar-equivalent serving of Splenda is insufficient to evoke insulin responses. Is this correct?

From what I have read, Sucralose (brand name Splenda) is a new sweetener that is derived from sugar.
- regarding its insulin responce -


.::Glycemic effect of a single high oral dose of the novel sweetener sucralose in patients with diabetes. (Mezitis NH, Maggio CA, Koch P, Quddoos A, Allison DB, Pi-Sunyer FX.)::. The study was done to examine the effect of a single high oral dose of the noncaloric sweetener sucralose on short-term glucose homeostasis in patients.

RESULT:Regardless of the type of diabetes, areas under the curves for changes of plasma glucose and serum C-peptide levels after sucralose administration were not significantly different from those after placebo.

CONCLUSION: The present results support the conclusion that sucralose consumption does not adversely affect short-term blood glucose control in patients with diabetes.

.::Repeated dose study of sucralose tolerance in human subjects.(Baird IM, Shephard NW, Merritt RJ, Hildick-Smith G)::.Two tolerance studies were conducted in healthy human adult volunteers. The first study was an ascending dose study conducted in eight subjects, in which sucralose was administered at doses of 1, 2. 5, 5 and 10mg/kg at 48-hour intervals and followed by daily dosing at 2mg/kg for 3 days and 5mg/kg for 4 days. In the second study, subjects consumed either sucralose (n=77) or fructose (50g/day) (n=31) twice daily in single blind fashion

RESULT: No adverse experiences or clinically detectable effects were attributable to sucralose in either study. Similarly, haematology, serum biochemistry, urinalysis and EKG tracings were unaffected by sucralose administration. In the 13-week study, serial slit lamp ophthalmologic examination performed in a random subset of the study groups revealed no changes. Fasting and 2-hour post-dosing blood sucralose concentrations obtained daily during week 12 of the study revealed no rising trend for blood sucralose

 

[MS]

I think that a high GI meal is a good idea post workout when you're trying to add LBM with minimal fat gain. I've not seen any evidence (personal or scientific) that is makes any difference in an underfed state. You also don't need to worry too much about liver glycogen as long as you're getting plenty of protein/carbs in your diet, and having high carb refeeds. Stay away from fructose. Despite what honey-board research may say, there is compelling evidence that fructose directly increases insulin resistance. I can't think of any time during a diet when this is a good thing. High carb (non fructose) refeeds will fill up your muscles, then fill up your liver as long as you eat enough.

I agree protein is an expensive way to refill muscle glycogen. However that is the main reason for increasing protein intake when on a hypocaloric diet. Your muscles are like a sponge post workout on a hypocaloric diet. As long as you get enough protein to prevent catabolism you don't absolutely NEED a postworkout insulin spike. Remember: Fat loss requires minimization of muscle catabolism, LBM gain requires maximization of anabolism. You can't adequately do both at the same time in a normal female hormonal mileu IMHO.

 

[wilson6]

Maltodextrin and sucralose are two different substances.

Maltodextrin will break down rapidly into glucose in the gut. The insulin response is the same as glucose.

Sucralose is a sugar alcohol. Very different response.

W6

 

[missyd143]

why is spenda no sugar and 0 calories but contains malto and dextrose..is it ok to have cause i use alot of it..will it prevent fat burning and raise insulin?

 

[SteelWeaver]

If I were Steel, I'd be thinking, "Would someone just tell me what to put in the pie-hole!?!?!??!?!" (Thanks for the suggestion DG)

Correct. Although, as you know spatts - I'll happily read anything that will increase my knowledge of how to do this whole BB thing more effectively and efficiently, and more importantly - know WHY - that's precisely why I hang around here - to watch people like W6 "play" .

Now, would someone just tell me what to put in the pie-hole?????

I work out at night, I drink my post-workout drink between 9 and 9:30 pm, I eat my final meal at 11 pm or so. Both of these meals contain high(ish) GI carbs (plus protein). Hunger is not a problem after this, since I go straight to sleep, although I have fibrous carbs too since they are yummy.

I'm not having a problem cutting right now, but is this a variable/manipulable factor for potential slow-downs?

 

[SteelWeaver]

As long as you get enough protein to prevent catabolism you don't absolutely NEED a postworkout insulin spike.

OK, but the question is, will it be detrimental to fat loss?

 

[dieslgrl]

remember that after a workout, this is the time you will LEAST likely store those carbs as fat... just don't over do it. I weigh 158lbs now around !0%bf--caliper tests said I was 9.7 at 15 weeks out, so I am not sure about accuracy, so I say 10% to be safe. (I am cutting- 12 weeks five days out) I normally stick with all food, because I can... after my workout, I have 35grams protein (usually talapia or orange roughy) with 5-7 lightly salted rice cakes.. (35-49 carbs--depending on WHAT I trained--- legs get the 7 rice cakes, everything else gets 5) This works well for me.... but I am sure everyone is different... I know you should probably have liquid post-workout, but I take 10g glutamine, 1000mg vit c, and 1000iu's vit E just before I eat...

give a few things a try... all options are great, but I like to EAT, and to not eat for another two hours after a shake makes me crazy with hunger... one thing is for sure... stay away from the fructose!

dg

 

[MS]

"OK, but the question is, will it be detrimental to fat loss?"

I dunno, my crystal ball is broken. I must be suffering PMS. Please don't obsess about every little thing. Remember I told you before how catabolic stress is?

I suspect that IF your high GI carbs are taken after a workout as part of a carb cycling diet AND you're losing mostly fat and little muscle AND your appetite is in control THEN it doesn't matter. I personally haven't tried this on myself or clients, and I'm certain there are no scientific studies that directly address this question in dieting female bodybuilders.

Personally (when cutting) I prefer to stick to low GI carbs except for carb refeed days when anything goes as far as GI. When not cutting I usually have high GI meals post workout.

 

[SteelWeaver]

"OK, but the question is, will it be detrimental to fat loss?"

I dunno, my crystal ball is broken. I must be suffering PMS. Please don't obsess about every little thing. Remember I told you before how catabolic stress is?

Haaah ha ha ha haah hah ha!!! Crystal ball! That's good! Damn, I KNEW you couldn't just KNOW all this stuff - not just off the top of your head.

Well, I hope you get it fixed soon.

OK, now I've had a good, relaxing belly laugh, I'll stop obsessing - tee hee!

(Until the NEXT question occurs to me ... don, don, don, don - theme to Jaws in background ...)

(Hey, there are studies on stress and catabolism in dieting female bodybuilders? What stress levels? How much catabolism? What variables? What did they use for controls? How much LBM loss ? ... )

 

[BigEasy]

Splenda

You are correct, Splenda brand sweetener is indeed a chlorinated sucrose derivative. The interesting thing is the box label shows it contains maltodextrins (probably to add volume and allow it to be measured the same a regular sugar). I know this falls in the "unimportant minutia department", so ignore my wanderings if you find them offensive, I am just curious.

I am unclear how a product with maltodextrins can be zero calories. Unless perhaps the maltodextrin caloric contribution is less than .5 kcalories and is rounded down, it would seem contradictory to state 0 kcals and a malto content. I know most diet soft drinks claim 1-5 kcals, so there seems to be some precedense for claiming even minor kcal content.

Or is this another US legal definition thing, somewhat like the "That depends upon the meaning of IS," comment by the ex-president?


Inquiring minds want to know?! LOL