Sweet Jezuzz! I line them up ... and you guys knock em down! lol. I thought that this thread died. Awesome that its still going. Some good info here.
I have to admitt that I am on board with Ulter and 40butpumpin on this one. I have been researching this whole pre-post workout nutrition lately quite a bit (as you can tell from my last few posts), as well as experiminting on myself. Here is my take on this ...
You people are not looking at the big picture here! What is the goal you try to accomplish from strength training? Is it to progressively build more muscle and get stronger? Or is it to burn fat? If your goal is to burn fat, you dont need to hammer out grueling workouts, go for a brisk walk if this is what you want to do. Im sorry but, even if you eat a pre-workout meal, you are going to mostly burn that meal during training, and not fat. If you do an hour of cardio after your workouts you may tap into fat for a bit. The point here is that you should not be looking to your strength training sessions for burning fat. The harder you can workout, the more you will stimulate your muscles to grow. The more your muscles grow, the more efficient your body becomes at burning fat! This is the big picture that most people are missing here. Giving your muscles the fuel they need to do this will get you there quicker.
I have been training fairly seriously for over 9 years now, and have just recently started drinking carbs this last month during my workouts, and let me tell you ... that I will not go back to not drinking carbs. Why wouldnt you want to give your body the tools it needs to build muscle better? If you think that you can have just as effective workouts without a sportsdrink, you are kidding yourself. I am reading a very good book that has a good section dedicated to this right now. The pumps that I am getting from the carbs during, and with r-ala before are sick. I feel like I can do the next days workout after I finish my normal workout.
There are two particular studies that I was looking (they are in a book, not gonna write them out). In one of the studies, a group of strength trainors were given fast carbs immediatly before, and inbetween all sets during exercise. The other was given a placebo. For exercises they did leg extensions at about 80% of their strength capacity performing repeated sets of 10 reps with rest between sets. The carb fed group outlasted the placebo group doing MANY more sets.
In another study, the strength trainors drank a 10% carb drink immediatly before, and inbetween their 5th, 10th, and 15th sets in their strength training workout. They performed repeated sets of 10 reps with 3 mins rest between each set. When they were fueled with the carb drink (only 1gram/kg of body weight), they could do more repetitions (149 vs. 129), and more total sets (17.1 vs. 14.4) than when they drank the placebo. This goes to show that carbs clearly give you an energy edge when taken during a workout. Istn this what you want to do? More sets and more reps? Again ... the harder you can workout, the more you can stimulate your muscles to grow. This inturn makes your body burn fat better. I am reading a very cool article that suggests honey is as being the best carb to drink during a workout, even outperforming dextrose and maltodextrin. Its supposedly the best "blend" of natural sugars, and subjects taking honey over the other types showed favorable changes in a hormone ratio that indicates a positive muscle recuperative state. Probably the reason why all of the newer gels coming out now all seem to use honey. Anywhoo ... this is for my next post! lol.
Its quite obvious that as you train, the gylcogen in your muscles progressively decreases. It is said that you can possibly deplete as much as 26% of your muscle glycogen during high-intesity strength training. I know that many of you are saying right now .. so? 26% is nothing, and not enough to effect strength training performce (I mean endurance athletes, - tennis players and bowlers lol - loose as much as 40% or more of their muscle glycogen when doing a competitivce event), so who gives a fuck right? Carbs wont help me during? Wrong.
Most people fail to usderstand that glycogen depletion is localised to the msucles you work!!!!!!!!! Lets say you are training legs, and pumping out some heavy squats. What happens as you are going through your workout, muscle glycogen is depleated mostly in your legs, and not so much in your arms legs and back for instance (although still some is). If scientists were to measure your glycogen levels after your training, they may find a 26% depletion overall, BUT your leg muscles could be completely emptied. The hard intese taining depleates glycogen from the individual muscles worked, carbs will help this problem and let you lift more and longer. Maybe this is not your goals in the gym, but it is mine. Why do you take creatine? So you can lift more, and intrurn become stronger and more musclular. Some concept applies. Why not give your muscles everything that they need to complete their job the best they can in the gym. I personally really notice the differnce on leg days especially.
Victor I am with you on no simple carbs as your pre-workout meal. I have tried this as well. The last thing that you want is to produce a fast and undesireable surge of blood sugar before your wrokout. Your pancreas is going to respond by oversecreting insuling to remove sugar from your blood. Blood sugar will eventually drop to too low of a level and you will feel week or dizzy. I have stopped halfway through some workouts because of this.
Of everything that I have read, and tried ... the best preworkout reccomendation is to have a small meal of carbs and protien 1.5-2hrs prior to your training. The meal should contain abouot 50g of carbs, and 15g of protien. Following this protocol will ensure that you gain the best energy advantage from your pre-workout meal, ... without feeling full while you are training. Do not take dextrose or high super GI carbs here. Also, make sure to be VERY hydrated pre-workout as well. I drink 3 cups of water with my pre-workout meal, and another 2 cups 15mins before my workout. I tale r-ala before hand, and drink a dextrose based drink during the workout. However I really want to switch to using honey. I am going to try drinking homeade iced green tea with lots of honey in it for a sweetener. Or honey carb gels.
I am not going back to not feeding my muscles what they need to lift more during training. Do you want to send a soldier out to war with no ammo??? Dont be "cheap" with your muscles. Give them what they need to get you through the most grueling workouts ... or they wont do what you want them
to do the best. I personally really notice the differnce on leg days especially.
Thats my thoughts on the whole issue. There are obviously many different views on this subject. I have really been trying to get to the bottom of this lately, by doing a lot of research and a lot of experimenting. I will be doing this from here on out, whether bulking or cutting. The point here is that you should not be looking to your strength training sessions for burning fat. The harder you can workout, the more you will stimulate your muscles to grow. The more your muscles grow, the more efficient your body becomes at burning fat! This is the big picture. Isnt this the whole point of bodybuilding? To become as strong, and as musclular as you can and burn as much fat off as possible. Anywhoo ... I personally feel that giving your muscles the fuel they need to do this will get you there quicker. Dont skimp on carbs "around" your workouts, before, during and after.
Mavy
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