THose of you who drink fast carbs DURING your workout

[Mavy]

This recommendation just seems really low to me, given how far away it is from the workout. Think about the timeframe you're working with here. You have that meal (about 260 calories) 1.5-2 hours before you lift, let's say you workout for an hour (during which you drink 200 calories or so of Gatorade), and then you have your post-workout meal within half an hour after training (of which you're saying to not include carbs I believe, so it's going to end up being quite low calorie again). So in a 3-3.5 hour time frame, you've consumed maybe, maybe 1000 calories. (Not to mention the fact that your calories should be centered around your training.) Are we bulking here, or are we starving children in Ethiopia? 1000 cals? Come on now, that's pathetic.

1.5-2 hours is a LONG time before a workout. You can easily have a full meal this far out. I would say your recommendation is better suited for 30-60 minutes before a workout. I don't know how many cals you're taking in on a bulk, but for anyone downing 4-5K+ it's going to be hard to fit them in when you're being so skimpy around the workout.

The points you make about drinking carbs during the workout make sense. Anyone who thinks they are burning fat preferentially during a workout has a few things to learn anyway, so that counter-argument is moot. I'm sticking with my original position though and saying that the differences will be negligible. Keeping everything constant in one's life, but only manipulating when those extra 200 carb calories (from the Gatorade) are taken in, I highly doubt you see much of a noticeable difference...at least in the short run...maybe a couple of lbs over the course of a few years. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be 245 lbs than 243 lbs at the same bodyfat %, but I just don't think it's THAT big a deal.

Eh bro .. .those numbers pre-workout are a guideline that are most commonly reccommended before exercise. Depending what you are doing, adjust them accordingly. You can obviously bump these up or down, closer to the workout, or further away based on your goals, and stats etc, but this is a common reccomendation, and a very accepted reccomendation for the best energy advantage from your pre-workout meal, ... without feeling full while you are training. Sure you can gorge yourself 30mins before training, but why? I have found 1.5 hrs is the best for me. I dont need to gorge on calories in the pre-workout meal either, becuase I eat carbs all day, AND I am drinking 750ml of carbs during my training. As far as postcycle .. you misunderstood me. I have been taking in minimal fast carbs in ASAP after training in because I am just finishing my carb drink by this time. Immdiately after training, I take in WPI, and vitamins, but easy on the carbs right now, because I just finished carbs from my workout. That was the whole point of this thread to see if I needed more simple carbs right after my drink is finished ASAP after my workout, and I am starting to believe that no ... its overkill. There is a cieling on how much muscle glycogen your body can stock anyways, this ultimately depends on how musclular you are. Because I eat carbs all day, I am not worried that I am not taking in enough carbs. After the workout shake with WPI and minimal carbs here, I try to eat carbs every 2 hrs after my postworkout shake. These meals all contain carbs and protien. So my postworkout meals DO contain carbs, just not my postworkout shake. There has been lots of research has shown that you should continually eat carbs after your training session, balncing out to about 40-80grams per hour during the 24 hour recovery period. Sure a lot times I dont get this, because I train late at night sometimes.

YOu think that its negligible? Well maybe, I certainly dont. Do you think that pumping out an extra full 3 sets of an exerice is negliglible? To me that is huge. Even adding a few more reps to each set is worth it in my opinion, and can have a huge effect on how well your break down your muscles. May not seem like a lot in the gym, but its effects can be great. In that study I was readying, the carb fed group did more total sets (17.1 vs. 14.4), which is quite significant in my opinion. This can be argued forever like it always has been. As it stands now, I am going to give my muscles everything that they need to workout to their fullest potential. If I really want to cut carbs from my diet, I can do it at other times during the day, not around my workouts.

Mavy

 

[Jenetic]

Glucose ultilization...

Nevermind.

Jenetic

 

[Mavy]

this, i think, is a good read...for anyone who's interested in using carbs and protein before and during training.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi54.htm

Good read 40 bro. Especially for BB.com, lol. I find you really have to filter a lot of the reads over there.

I found this part particularily intersting...

"To give you an example, a protein/carbohydrate supplement ingested immediately prior to exercise (or sipped during exercise) can actually increase skeletal muscle blood flow. Since this drink not only enhances blood flow but stocks that blood up with amino acids and glucose, the protein balance of the muscle will be shifted toward the positive and glycogen depletion will be significantly reduced.

In addition, those amino acids and glucose units, independent of their effects on muscle protein and glycogen status, can also lead to a decrease in cortisol concentrations and improve the overall immune response"

Do you drink carbs AND protien during training? I have heard of a few peeps doing this. My brother is one of them. I always pictured protien to not sit so well in the ol gut during training. I like that they keep reccomending to dilute your protien drinks properly. I used to make mine so thick (sooo much protien packed in), and not enough fluid, it would be sooo filling. Its can also be very dehydrating like this and cause gastrointestinal issues. Good read though!

 

[Mavy]

Glucose ultilization...

Nevermind.

Jenetic

C'mon there Don Anabolico .. elaborate a little for us here. I would love to here your thoughts on this subject.

 

[gregory]

"To give you an example, a protein/carbohydrate supplement ingested immediately prior to exercise (or sipped during exercise) can actually increase skeletal muscle blood flow. Since this drink not only enhances blood flow but stocks that blood up with amino acids and glucose, the protein balance of the muscle will be shifted toward the positive and glycogen depletion will be significantly reduced.

In addition, those amino acids and glucose units, independent of their effects on muscle protein and glycogen status, can also lead to a decrease in cortisol concentrations and improve the overall immune response"

And this is exactly what i have been writing on this thread and others for some time, but somehow noone listens and my responses get skipped. I have noticed yesterday as a matter of fact that following my workouts on the dextrose and protein i appear very flusehd all over my body for about an hour or two. This is definitely indiciative of increased blood flow and it never hampered me in the fat loss department.

 

[Mavy]

And this is exactly what i have been writing on this thread and others for some time, but somehow noone listens and my responses get skipped. I have noticed yesterday as a matter of fact that following my workouts on the dextrose and protein i appear very flusehd all over my body for about an hour or two. This is definitely indiciative of increased blood flow and it never hampered me in the fat loss department.

lol ... I am listening ot you bro.

Just dont overly agree with the simple carbs for a pre-workout meal thats all.

 

[40butpumpin]

Good read 40 bro. Especially for BB.com, lol. I find you really have to filter a lot of the reads over there.

I found this part particularily intersting...

"To give you an example, a protein/carbohydrate supplement ingested immediately prior to exercise (or sipped during exercise) can actually increase skeletal muscle blood flow. Since this drink not only enhances blood flow but stocks that blood up with amino acids and glucose, the protein balance of the muscle will be shifted toward the positive and glycogen depletion will be significantly reduced.

In addition, those amino acids and glucose units, independent of their effects on muscle protein and glycogen status, can also lead to a decrease in cortisol concentrations and improve the overall immune response"

Do you drink carbs AND protien during training? I have heard of a few peeps doing this. My brother is one of them. I always pictured protien to not sit so well in the ol gut during training. I like that they keep reccomending to dilute your protien drinks properly. I used to make mine so thick (sooo much protien packed in), and not enough fluid, it would be sooo filling. Its can also be very dehydrating like this and cause gastrointestinal issues. Good read though!

yes bro i use a mixture of hydro 520 and cfm iso along with glutamine peptides and vitamin c. i use a 3:1 ratio of simple carbs to this protein mixture. that adds up to 25g protein immediately before, and 25 grams sipped all during training. total carb intake during this time is approx. 150g. about one hour pwo, i have more protein (~50g) of a different makeup which also includes micellar and egg whites, but now carbs have decreased dramatically as i take little or none here. a little while later i have a big healthy food meal and then more slower proteins later.

 

[Judo Tom]

this is a great thread.

Mavy you brough up some great points from those studies and i thikn your 100% right in focusing on getting a better workout as opposed to focusing on GH release.

I also think the point you mentioned about getting an even amount of carbs in 2hr incremints post workout is one that is really limiting growth in a lot of people here. so many people are cutting carbs past 4pm , 6pm whatever and they only get 1 shake and 1 mealwith carbs before going to bed.. i think that is a big mistake.

 

[Jenetic]

C'mon there Don Anabolico .. elaborate a little for us here. I would love to here your thoughts on this subject.

This particular subject is quite simple once we address the fundamentals and disregard the majority of the unecessary or inapplicable issues which complicate the primary emphasis of the subject.

The goal of your nutritional intake during exercise activity is to sustain the increased energy requirement due to various training factors such as intensity, duration and frequency. These factors combined equal your total training volume. As exercise intensity increases, greater emphasis is placed on carbohydrates to be utilized as fuel. Anaerboic metabolism occurs during high intensity exercise and the majority of energy derrives from the conversion of muscle glycogen to lactic acid. Glycogen stores are rapidly reduced during short term high intensity intermittent exercise due to the overall energy demand and limited stores. Within 20 minutes, glycogen stores decrease to approximately 80% on average. Therefore, it's imperative that your carbohydrate intake is adequate in order to sustain the training load necessary to induce the necessary physiological stimulus which is needed to improve and/or maintain performance. As previously mentioned, significant reductions in glycogen stores, muscle and liver, take place during anaerobic activity. This is why it is essential to supply and replenish your carbohydrate stores. If this is not accomplished to an optimal extent, the result is an automatic reduction in your overall performance. More specifically, due to the inadequate nutritional intake, your training intensity and/or duration decreases as your body is not able to meet the demands elicted by the exercise activity. This ultimately impairs progress via a decreased adaptive physiological response from your body since the required stimulus is not generated in order to increase or maintain performance.

Jenetic

 

[JKurz1]

ok bro.......so what's your conclusion:

1 cup oats w/ some cottage cheese and ANPB
a scoop of way - 1.5 hours before

During
16oz gatorade

1.5 hours after
Full ass meal?