ABC training, Fred Hatfield

[SteelWeaver]

I did a search for this, but didn't turn anything up, so sorry if it has been covered before.

Has anyone here tried Dr Squat's ABC training method? Where "A" is a low intensity day, "B" is a moderate intensity day, and "C" is a very high intensity day. You do an A, B, C, B, A series, or A, A, B, B, C, C, B, B, A, A, or whatever for each bodypart over your 6 or 8 week period, then mix it all up again.

I was just reading about it in "Hardcore Bodybuilding: A Scientific Approach", and it just seems to me that the number of sets per workout are kind of through the roof! Like 56 sets of low intensity in one workout (covering all parts except chest and back), or 45 sets at moderate intensity (3 exercises x 3 sets per bodypart). Now, he's anti any kind of chemical "help", so I'm just wondering if even people who are "on" could do this number of sets and maintain any kind of intensity. I'm not on, and my current leg and shoulder workout wipes me out at about 30 - 36 sets total, never mind taking about 2 hours without too much rest between sets.

The concept is great, that, for example, chest takes longer than, say, biceps to recover, so one of them will always end up being either overtrained or undertrained on a regular once a week or twice a week system. It just seems really hard to put into practice without training 6 days a week.

I went onto a 3-day body-part split with a 4 day a week training programme, so that every part gets hit every 5 days or so. I wasn't making progress on once a week. This seems to work, but I'm wondering if I can't fine-tune it any better.

Any experience of this, or ideas, anyone?

 

[cytrix]

what exactly is the definition of an
1. highly intense workout
2. moderately intense workout
3. low intense workout?

1. more eccentric by moving slowly like 1/4 ,plus going past failure with forced reps/negatives/burns/drops?

2. going to positive failure? still slower speed with more time spend on the eccentric part, like 1/2 ?

3. stopping before reaching positive failure once it gets hard to do? moving quicker on the eccentric portion, like a 1/1 speed?

 

[SteelWeaver]

what exactly is the definition of an
1. highly intense workout
2. moderately intense workout
3. low intense workout?

I'm going to describe them the other way around, since #1 is basically the same exercises as # 2 but in a giant set.

So, #3, a low intensity workout, about 8 - 10 sets of 8-12 reps per muscle group to "max effort", eliminating the eccentric portion of the movement as far as possible. 2-3 mins. rest between sets.

2. a moderately intense workout: 3 exercises per muscle group, 2-3 mins. rest between sets.

First exercise, 5 reps/ 3 sets / 85% max., explosive
Second, 12 reps/ 3 sets/ 70% max., rhythmic cadence
Third, 40 reps/3 sets/ 40% max., slow, continuous tension

3. As I said, the same exercises as #2, but in one long giant set, no rest, same rep numbers, same style of movement. He recommends doing at least 2 sets of 40 in any one giant set, with a total of 11 - 12 sets making up the giant set.

The theory here is that when you move from heavy explosive movements to a more rhythmic cadence for more reps, or to very high reps, you're using different muscle fibers, and that's what makes it possible to do such a high number of reps.

He doesn't say anything about partials, negatives, drops, etc. His aim is to hit every type of fiber in many types of ways to force adaptation and growth.

I'd like to try it, because the idea of being able to train each muscle group as soon as it's ready, and before it becomes detrained, seems totally reasonable.

What doesn't seem reasonable is the amount of time I'd be spending in the the gym to do it. I don't think I can, or should do that many sets (although I notice some people here seem to be able to go on for, like, 102 sets just for arms LOL).

I thought it was bad as a beginner-intermediate BB to spend more than an hour training at one time, but this programme recommends up to 56 sets in one session - that would take me about 3 or 4 hours!

Anyway - heard of it? Know anything about it? Tried it?

 

[cytrix]

where did you get this info from? sounds interesting. do you have to do giant sets? or could you just work out very intense but single sets?

 

[SteelWeaver]

I guess I'm not succinct enough - the name of the book got buried in my first post. It's called "Hardcore Bodybuilding: A Scientific Approach", by Frederick Hatfield, published in 1993.

He's been around for a long time, mostly in the powerlifting world - he broke tons of records back in the 80's - was one of the first to squat more than 1000 pounds.

Anyway, you could probably manipulate the intensity any way you liked. He lists several ways of manipulating intensity, but I think the rest factor is a major one - the intensity between a giant set and single sets is quite different, but I kind of wonder about crossing the glycogen to aerobic threshold.

I've just spent a week puzzling and puzzling over the whole system, trying to figure out how to fit it into my abilities and schedule and so on. Because I know it must work. I guess I was really hoping someone had used it or knew it.

I guess I'll have to pioneer it for myself! Do you want to know any more?

 

[cytrix]

i have been trying to figure out a workout plan that incorperates different intensities, what about this:

workout 1 high intensity = very traumatic/high eccentric
involvement/using something like a 2/6 rep cadence

workout 2 low intensity - non traumatic/avoid eccentric/using a
2/1 rep cadence

workout 3 moderate intensity - moderately traumatic/limit eccentric involvement/using a 2/2 cadence

repeat 1-2-3

what'ya think?

 

[cytrix]

one more question: what other intensity techniques does hatfield suggest? i know he is against training to/past failure. so, forced reps are out. what about drop sets, as long as you strip weight before having reached failure?

 

[SteelWeaver]

I think what you posted looks good, and is similar to what I intend to try, but shorter on the 2/6 cadence. The key point, though, in Hatfield's theory, is the frequency is relation to the intensity. If you do a really really intense workout, you'll need longer to recover than if it's low intensity. Also, different body parts and different types of muscles need longer or shorter to recover.

He cites a lot of research that indicates that, on average, biceps, triceps and shoulders recover from moderate workouts after about 3 days, or 2 for low int. or 4 for high intensity.

Chest, back and legs take a day or so longer, especially legs and back. Abs and calves take a day or so shorter.

And that's the original reason for my posting. It just seems so damn complex to vary the intensity for each and every body part, as well as the intensity over the macrocycle. You'd end up doing, say, A's for chest and legs, B for abs and, say C, for back, all in one day! One workout never has the same parts or intensity of those parts as another! I drew up a chart and everything, but kept getting blank days scattered around.

So I'm gonna do like you and just keep the same frequency for now, and play with the intensity. I think I'll go with giant sets now and then, and forced reps and drop sets.

About your other question: it's kind of weird - I've seen in other books of his that Hatfield doesn't agree with forced reps, but in this book he endorses them like crazy, so ... maybe he changed his mind somewhere along the line.

I personally like forced reps and drop sets.

As for other techniques, he mentions increasing the number of exercises per body part, or increasing the number of parts done in one workout, reducing rest between sets, (this is a good one, even if you just reduce by 10 secs each time) reducing rest between reps (?), either increasing or decreasing the speed of movements, and some others that I can't remember now.

Anyway, let me know how you get on.

 

[cytrix]

steelweaver, thanx for the detailed reply. yeah, it gets really complicated to do every single bodypart after a certain amount of days depending on wether you did a high,moderate or low intensity workout. different bodyparts having different recovery times and you have to mix it up too, training one of the bodyparts you are training high intensity, another low etc. that's why i'm gonna try what i listed previously, 'cause i will make it too difficult doing it perfect, consideriing you also have other things to focus on in your life.
hey, maybe we can exchange our experience with it?