Explain to me what is happening when you wait too long to eat, want to die, but then it passes?

[Sassy69]

I understand the whole process behind going ketogenic - i.e. you cut your carbs low enough such that your body has to switch over to drawing on ketones for energy because there's no more carb source for it to run on. During the switch over time, you experience that crazy hunger, the feeling of flakiness and all while your brain doesnt' really have the carbs readily available to run on, etc.

But in the much shorter term what is the mechanism -- say you are on a well-established diet that runs tightly on schedule so your body has been trained to expect food on a schedule. But then for some reason you get stuck and can't get to your next meal on time. You know that feeling where you don't even get the stomach hunger pains and go straight to the flaky-in-the-head feeling, maybe get that cold sweat that washes over you (low blood sugar) and then you start to feel sick like you are goign to die in the next two minutes if you don't eat. But you still aren't able to eat. Then after a while, its ok. You still need to eat, but it seems you've passed thru that complete misery feeling and are ok for awhile.

What has happened here? I'm guessing if it was supposed to be a carb meal, but its not on schedule, your body has metabolized the contents of the most recent meal and is now hunting for that expected immediate source of energy? BUt since its not there, you get that momentary fuzzy feeling in your head, the sick feelign, and then it passes. Does this mean that a source of energy was located and the immediate need for fuel has been met by, I dunno, catabolizing muscle or burning some bodyfat?

Can someone explain to me what happens in that period of time to staunch that crazy OMG I GOTTA EAT NOW feeling for at least a little while?

 

[Ghede]

Interesting question... guess: The body starts to do the gluconeogenesis boogie and converts available structural proteins to sugars and you feel like you may actuall live. Guess. Will ask around though....

 

[alex2678]

Re: Explain to me what is happening when you wait too long to eat, want to die, but t

Good question. I know extreme high carbohdrate diets have been linked to cause panic attacks, so I'm guessing your body has become adjusted to having x amount of meals at a certain time each day. When that meal isn't there adrenaline surges causing the "want to die" feelings. Since the brain nuerons cannot store blood glucose and depend on what's available from the bloodstream, you therefore get the dizzy feelings, trembling, confusion, blurred vision.....Just a thought.

 

[sbt2082]

I understand the whole process behind going ketogenic - i.e. you cut your carbs low enough such that your body has to switch over to drawing on ketones for energy because there's no more carb source for it to run on. During the switch over time, you experience that crazy hunger, the feeling of flakiness and all while your brain doesnt' really have the carbs readily available to run on, etc.

But in the much shorter term what is the mechanism -- say you are on a well-established diet that runs tightly on schedule so your body has been trained to expect food on a schedule. But then for some reason you get stuck and can't get to your next meal on time. You know that feeling where you don't even get the stomach hunger pains and go straight to the flaky-in-the-head feeling, maybe get that cold sweat that washes over you (low blood sugar) and then you start to feel sick like you are goign to die in the next two minutes if you don't eat. But you still aren't able to eat. Then after a while, its ok. You still need to eat, but it seems you've passed thru that complete misery feeling and are ok for awhile.

What has happened here? I'm guessing if it was supposed to be a carb meal, but its not on schedule, your body has metabolized the contents of the most recent meal and is now hunting for that expected immediate source of energy? BUt since its not there, you get that momentary fuzzy feeling in your head, the sick feelign, and then it passes. Does this mean that a source of energy was located and the immediate need for fuel has been met by, I dunno, catabolizing muscle or burning some bodyfat?

Can someone explain to me what happens in that period of time to staunch that crazy OMG I GOTTA EAT NOW feeling for at least a little while?

Wow this is an excellent post Sassy! I know that exact feeling too... because sometimes just when its about time to eat again all of a sudden I get busy at work... then its bout zero to b&^%h in about 5 seconds and my body starts to scream needing food... but then just like you said by the time I get around to eating I almost don't even feel hungry! Excellent post look forward to some of the replies!

 

[lacoste]

I'm not 100% sure on this one, but here it goes, I would say its your bodys natural way of kicking into survival mode. That is how we are designed as humans, to survive and adapt. As soon as your body doesn't know when you might eat again it puts all fat on lockdown. Your metabolism slows and your body will pull from the easiest source possible which will most likely be muscle. I would say that the dizzy, lightheaded feeling is the body transitioning to alternative fuel sources. Back in the day people relied solely on what they grew, caught, or hunted for food. There could be long stretches in between, this is how people wouldn't starve to death. In todays world for those of us dieting it works to our disadvantage, But if we ever end up like the cast on LOST, then we'll be straight.

 

[Sassy69]

That's sort of what I thought --- if you went on the idea that the body went in search of an alternate source & locked in on the bodyfat -- then you'd actually drop bodyfat if you did delays in your eating. But if it goes for muscle first --- that sux.

Would it be that muscle is the next preferred source (which contradicts the whole concept of fat burning) or that the bodyfat sources have been locked down as a survival mechanism?

Or as suggested - its pulling from sort of the free-floating stuff and then when that runs out you go thru another mini-phase of flakiness & sick-want-to-die feeling when the low hanging fruit has been consumed. Then maybe at that point it goes for the muscle?

Or something like that?


Maybe the better question is - what is the order of fuel source consumption?

1) easiest - ingested food
2) next ---
3) next --

etc.

 

[Agent Dana Scully]

Interesting question... guess: The body starts to do the gluconeogenesis boogie and converts available structural proteins to sugars and you feel like you may actuall live. Guess. Will ask around though....

Damn, i was about to say something similar. Like, after a certain amount of time your body gives you a leeway to eat, if you don't feed in time, your body is like *fuck it* switches to survival mode and starts eating away at your own muscle to feed itself, so thats why you don't feel the misery anymore.

This is purely surmisal though, haven't read anything past this guys post i quoted, so im prob. wrong.

 

[alex2678]

Re: Explain to me what is happening when you wait too long to eat, want to die, but t

Agreed about the survival mechanisms. The whole homeostasis idea. When you're getting the dizzy feelings, the body has to do something to get out of "panic mode" and will somehow find an alternate source of energy. My guess is whatever is in your stomach at the moment. Since there's no sugar in the brain it will have to either convert protein to glucose, which can happen for as much as 65% of ingested protein, or break down fatty tissue. From all the readings I've seen, the human body will burn stored bodyfat last. Liver glycogen, muscle glycogen, proteins converted to sugar, then fats would be my best explanation.

 

[Ghede]

Energy stored as fat is the last resort in your bodies line of defence when you are in 'panic/famine/starvation' mode.


You must fuel the furnace to burn the fat. Damn, woman, you KNOW this shit as well or better than anyone else I know!

Deficit to little, to little progress to keep your sanity.
Deficit just right, you drop between one and two lbs of bf/week, less is more, more means LBM loss.
Deficit too much, you lose NO bodyfat and even risk puttin more ON in cases of extreme cal. deficit, even though you are functionally starving yourself.

I got this exact conversation again tonight, seems like every day, "XXXX, why cant i lose this fat around my midsection/ass/upperthighs? I am training 1.25 hours of cardio a day, six days a week, and lift heavy four days a week! My diet is pretty damn good too!"

'pretty damn good' means 'I have no idea what my diet is or how much deficit i am running.


"Well, how much to you eat? you dont know? lets figger it out. (pause, fitday opens...) well, lets see, it looks like you are expending near 3200 cals a day and only eating 1200. Maybe you are in too great a deficit? *politely smirking*


You can train as much or as long and intensly as you want. Even four or five hours a day.... you just have to FUEL that effort with a great enough supply of nutrients to maintain FEAST mode or you go boom.

 

[steelmass]

I understand the whole process behind going ketogenic - i.e. you cut your carbs low enough such that your body has to switch over to drawing on ketones for energy because there's no more carb source for it to run on. During the switch over time, you experience that crazy hunger, the feeling of flakiness and all while your brain doesnt' really have the carbs readily available to run on, etc.

But in the much shorter term what is the mechanism -- say you are on a well-established diet that runs tightly on schedule so your body has been trained to expect food on a schedule. But then for some reason you get stuck and can't get to your next meal on time. You know that feeling where you don't even get the stomach hunger pains and go straight to the flaky-in-the-head feeling, maybe get that cold sweat that washes over you (low blood sugar) and then you start to feel sick like you are goign to die in the next two minutes if you don't eat. But you still aren't able to eat. Then after a while, its ok. You still need to eat, but it seems you've passed thru that complete misery feeling and are ok for awhile.

What has happened here? I'm guessing if it was supposed to be a carb meal, but its not on schedule, your body has metabolized the contents of the most recent meal and is now hunting for that expected immediate source of energy? BUt since its not there, you get that momentary fuzzy feeling in your head, the sick feelign, and then it passes. Does this mean that a source of energy was located and the immediate need for fuel has been met by, I dunno, catabolizing muscle or burning some bodyfat?

Can someone explain to me what happens in that period of time to staunch that crazy OMG I GOTTA EAT NOW feeling for at least a little while?

I use slin to drop into keto so its not that bad - i just feel nausea... 8am first shot - by 8pm im in keto.