Proper Spotting and Training to Failure

[MadCow1]

I replyed with this on another board so I figured I'd post it here also:

I've trained alone most of my life. I've also trained for years with a partner and I currently have one. Let me set a few things straight as the notions of spotting and failure are so distorted in the gyms today:

A spotter is for safety - not to help you do your work sets or even touch that bar unless necessary. Even fingers touching the bar upset the alignment and make it easier/less effective. This is why we use free weights and not machines and why the smith machine sucks. As does the Joe Spotter machine - see my point. (Free weights being more effective than machines for hypertrophy is a given so lets not bring up how many of us adore the Hammer or Cybex Pec Deck)

Failure is when I hit that last rep and my form begins to really break down. Where I begin using joint leverages and wiggling some to make it. You still make the lift but you know that certain muscles could not hold out. This is the point of muscular failure on the lift.

Failure is not where some joker does shrugs while you bench your last 5 reps or touches the bar for most of the set. These are forced reps and although they can be beneficial for breaking plateaus should be used sparingly and not part of core training. This would be vastly beyond the point of failure i.e. >100%

A partner is great for motivation, plate loading on heavy days, and indispensable for confidence on max outs and lift offs. However for the vast majority of all sets and all exercises they should not assist you with the lifts in any way. Hence the term "spotter" and not "assistant lifter".

Thought some of you might find this insightful as the gyms today have destroyed the notion of what a spotter is used for - and I can't stand spotting for someone who wants me to lift the last 5 reps for him. This also is intended for all lifts but it's most abused by the benchers.

Good training to you all.

 

[chillin408]

I agree with you. I Only got a spot on bench because its the only excercise i can think of that if u drop the weight,your dropping it on yourself. For example with squats u can always drop it behind you on the safety rack, but with bench if u drop it your dropping it on your chest. I tell the spotter to only help if im absolutly dying. It sucks with someone puts their hand in your face for all 12 reps, makes me angry because i feel like i did 20-30 lighter(their finger help). Also i don't like it when they help me when i look like im stuck,but im really not. But I understand, because some people actually want help on the last few reps,some even want help on all of them, so whenever i;m giving a spot always make sure that i'm clear on there directions.

I understand what your saying though. For example when someone says i can do a certain weight 12 times. But their talking about with a spot,but in reality they could only do it 4-5 times before they fail without one. And about the smith machine theirs this guy that always use to talk shit . He only uses the smith machine when he does squats,and he claims he can do the same weight using free weights(right!). He thinks theirs no difference,but hes full of shit,hes punk who always talk shit. He knows hes lying too.

 

[panerai]

Very popular lately is a theory that one shouldn't go to failure and use spotter. Stop 1-2 reps before failure.
Lots of guys who tried it, claim greater gains that with old fashion method.

 

[CB38AC]

I like training hard with assistance. Usually pic a wieght i can do 5 clean then force up 2 more with no help then finish with 2 more with the minimum help needed just when stuck will say help to my partner and get just enough, this is the only way i canever feel tired or sore and will even drop and force 2-3 more at a lighter wieght frequently

 

[bigmag]

I agree with you....but I like for my spotter to help me out on the last few because I don't like staining my ass off and not making the bar move.....and I like to go untill I can't even feel my muscles....but that's how I like it.....it's more of a matter of prefference imho

 

[MadCow1]

It's not really a matter of preference - it's the difference between failure and forced reps. If you need help lifting you have already failed. Forced reps when used on a regular basis tend to limit gains. A spotter just keeps you from killing yourself and should only come to assistance if you badly misjudge and can't make the lift.

Of course if you prefer using forced reps for all your core workouts and hurting your gains, more power to you. That is a matter of preference.

 

[CB38AC]

How can you say that mad cow? I know myself if I only do regular sets with no forced reps then I will NEVER be sore or feel tired no matter how hard I wroked on the sets. And what about someone on Gear the should want to do forced reps to stimulate even more growth

 

[MadCow1]

Amended to the case against forced reps on a consistent basis

This response got lengthy but I think it's worthwhile:

Progress (increased work capacity/stronger/bigger muscles) has little to do with how tired one is at the end of a workout or how sore one gets.

A drug like Anadrol enables many lifters to do set after endless set and oftentimes they do not get very sore - this in no way keeps them from getting stronger or bigger. Many top level lifters train with high frequency before a meet and do not get sore workout to workout but still continue to increase lifts and peak for the event. Same for drugged and natural.

They cycle and increase work capacity based on total volume in an exercise and where intensity is quantitatively defined as %of 1RM. This is classical weight training used by the best power and olympic lifters, coaches, and teams around the globe.

The antithesis of this style training is the HIT training where one measures intesity by feel. I don't want to get into HIT vs. %'s cause I've had success with both but there's huge evidence for training by % over longer periods of time. Neither HIT or %'s involve training consistently past the point of failure with forced reps.

People have taken the notion of muscular failure and taken it to the extreme where the involved muscles lose all capacity by the end of a set and your spotter completes the lifts for you. This is fine for a minicycle but in reality muscle is 1st damaged by exercise then repaired stronger than before by a marginal degree. The goal is to get the best response possible with the minimum amount of damage i.e. (take 5 away but add 10 = net 5 where taking 9 away but adding 10 = net 1). Your recovery is limited and if extra damage is caused it takes away from gains and possibly sets you back. When drugged your response is stronger where you can repair more and get stronger faster but still the goal is the same - maximize adaptation by minimizing damage.

Forced reps cause a high degree of damage on a consistent basis. You may still make gains but you are shortchanging yourself. Used sparingly they work great. Of course you may not feel the same sort of exhaustion after a workout but your gains will improve.

BTW - I highly recommend training by %'s and total volume for the core lifts. It is the basis on which the best strength atheletes in the world are trained.

 

[fiatconspiracy]

when you spot some knuckle head who is benching 8000lbs I just push down a little on the weight and pretend I am spotting, or i will yell real loud " come on you mother fu**er, lift the FU**ING weight, " so it attracts a lot of attention and the guy is forced to do like 3 extra reps, and he is sore broken after that set, My theory is he wont ask me to spot him again, but they always do, maybe they like the pain?

 

[milos]

Having someone to spot you is usually good as loong as they are doing it right My workout partner used to lift the bloody thing for me on the last few reps and that really pissed me off. I mean what is the point of those few last reps if you are not doing them with max effort. I started using stripping method for a while and that does work well for me it really thakes everything out from you if you use it right. But you are rigt having a spotter is usually very beneficial when it comes to motivation saefty... But you must be careful who you pick.