Good postworkout shake?

[trojan1444]

Right now I'm usually having...

-2 scoops of whey
-banana
-one serving of gatorade

Comes out to be about 330 calories, 35g protein, 45g carbs. My bodyweight is 135 by the way (trying to bulk up)

Sometimes I feel like this is too much sugary carbs, but I keep hearing that you're supposed to take in high-GI carbs after a workout.

Any suggestions for the shake?

 

[Psykosik]

From the scientific research (and proven), I'd say your PWO shake is horrible. It's not about opinion, it's about science. You shouldn't be having fructose/fat in your shake.

Your PWO shake should be :

-Whey Protein (Isolate preferrably)
-Dextrose
-Maltodextrin
-Sodium
-Water

Why both Maltodextrin AND Dextrose ?
for faster gastric emptying combined with proper osmolarity.
It must be 50% / 50%

Now lets go back to the first concept we learned called, “gastric emptying.” Our goal post workout is to maintain a prompt digestion rate so nutrients can transport swiftly, and efficiently to our muscles. With that said, it has been shown that this process slows when the ingested fluid contains a high osmolarity concentration (the second concept studied). Osmolarity again is dependent on the number of particles in a solution. That is, a100-milliliter solution with 20 glucose molecules will have a higher osmolarity then a100-millileter solution that only contains 10 molecules. The shorter chain length a carbohydrate has, the higher it raises the solution's osmolarity. Therefore, it is no surprise that a pure glucose solution (or dextrose, a monosaccharide) induces very high concentrations of solute.

Fortunately these negative effects become greatly reduced when the drink contains a glucose polymer stacked with dextrose. But we still want a carbohydrate that is easily digested, and has a high Gl. Hence we use a combination of dextrose and maltodextrin. Osmolarity will be decreased, and glucose will still enter the blood stream at a proficient rate, thus maintaining its anabolic nature.

A second factor concerning osmolarity must now be examined. From a clinical standpoint it is vital to take into consideration the fact that plasma (the liquid portion of blood) has an Osmolarity of 300 mOsm. This means that if one were to inject a solution with a greater concentration of solute into their blood, it would cause water from inside their red blood cells to leave by Osmosis (water always travels down its concentration gradient) and move into the plasma, in turn shrinking the erythrocytes (red blood cells). This is because the cells are iso-osmotic to the plasma (both have the same concentration of solute).

A similar concept can be applied to your post workout meal. If a competitor were to consume a solution that was hypertonic or had a higher concentration of solute then 300 mOsm it could dehydrate them (showing why digestion is rightfully slowed in a high concentrated solution). The addition of maltodextrin once again solves this problem.

The next question is, why not just use maltodextrin, and eliminate dextrose since it is so proficient? Ah, once again it is not that simple. Shi. X et al. in an outstanding study tested the digestive effects of two substrates (any substance acted upon by an enzyme) as opposed to only one substrate in the small intestine. What they found was quite fascinating. The solution containing two substrates stimulated the activation of more transport mechanisms in the intestinal lumen, then did its singular counterpart. Therefore more carbohydrates were transported out of the small intestine (absorbed into the blood), which additionally aided a greater absorption rate of water into the blood stream (by osmosis). Thus, the higher activation rate of transport mechanisms, even with higher osmolarity facilitated faster energy uptake and hydration !

One of these mechanisms is the glucose/Sodium co transport system (discussed in further detail shortly). When a proper amount of sodium and glucose are combined, an even greater amount of glucose is absorbed, and in turn a higher rate of H20 is absorbed. Thus dextrose increases fluid uptake, and contributes to blood glucose maintenance. Which in turn helps spare liver and muscle glycogen from being depleted.

[...] these factors make dextrose and maltodextrin the perfect post workout combo.

The sodium will be used to transports the nutrients to your cells and you need to replenish what you’ve lost from sweating during a workout.

Earlier in the article I discussed the sodium/glucose co transport mechanism. This concept falls under the heading of secondary active transport. Primary active transport takes place via a pumping system. You see, each of your cells contain proteins which break down ATP, into ADP + P + Energy, and use the products to power the pump. The Sodium/Potassium Atpase, pumps three sodiums out of the cell, and only two potassiums into it. This makes sodium’s concentration higher on the outside of the cell. Additionally the inside of the cell is more negatively charged then the outside. Sodium is a positively charged ion and attracted to the negative area. It has been pumped against its electrochemical gradient (concentration is greater outside of the cell and more negative). Thus, Na+ (sodium) will now move back into the cell.

There are proteins within a cell membrane, which act to transport glucose. However, the binding site for glucose has a low affinity for it, unless sodium is bound to it. Due to the electrochemical gradient, sodium enters a binding site specific for it on the protein, and when it does so, the protein changes its shape (allosteric reaction), so that sodium can now bind, and be transported into the cell. This is called co transport because two substances are transported into the cell together, and secondary active transport because it takes advantage of the concentration gradient set up by the primary mechanism. By taking in the proper amount of sodium, you increase the concentration gradient outside of the cell, and therefore increase sodiums ability to bind to transport proteins. In doing so you not only increase glucose absorption, but as pointed out, you also further increase water uptake across the lumenal membrane of the intestine as well.

You need water, and alot. Why ?
It transports the nutrients to your cells and you need to replenish what you’ve lost from sweating during a workout.

Gastric emptying is greatly influenced by its volume. Emptying rate decreases exponentially as fluid volume is depleted. Therefore, an effective way to speed up gastric emptying is by maintaining high fluid volumes in the stomach. This will also optimize nutrient passage into the intestines. But you do not want to over hydrate yourself, as you will understand shortly. Therefore I would recommend about 500 mL of water immediately before training (spread through a 30 minute time span), and 200 mL every 15-20 minutes (about the rate at which fluids are drained during intense training sessions) of the workout to maintain high water levels in your stomach. For optimal hydration, consume a 92% water solution in your post-workout shake. To calculate this divide the carbohydrate content (in grams) by the fluid volume (in millimeters), and multiply by 100. Thus if you consumed 80 grams of carbohydrates in 1 L of water (1000 mL) you would be having 8% carbohydrates, and 92% H2O.

Another reason to frequently drink water is avoidance of dehydration. To name a few reasons why, dehydration reduces circulatory and temperature-regulating capacities, which meet metabolic needs and thermal demands of exercise, and recovery (8,9). And here is some insight from Mr. Knowlden in, “The Window of Opportunity.”

“Re-hydration post-workout is crucial. Thermoregulatory processes need to be put in check as well. Water is responsible for storing carbohydrates and will also help to further speed up the digestion process of the carbohydrates and protein.”

The effects of this can further reduce blood flow to the skin for more effective cooling. But as stated above, too much water is counter productive, inflicting a medical problem known as “hyponatremia.”

That shake HAVE to be consumed during the hour following your working.
I personnaly suggest you to drink half of your shake immediatly (first 15 miinutes), then sip the rest over 30 to 45 minutes.

Don't worry, all those carbs won't make you gain fat.

Tapering the solution will steady blood glucose levels, assuring against high and low peak rates of release, optimizing the anabolic effects of this hormone.
This will allow further post-workout fat oxidation from exercise intensity, which research shows is not hindered by a high GI formula post-workout. Research shows fat oxidation is amplified under high levels of intensity in spite of elevated carbohydrate intake following cessation of training.
Carbohydrate metabolism post-workout is not comparable to sedentary carbohydrate metabolism. This has been shown in previous essays and through research (4).
It is extremely improbable in a glycogen-depleted state that the body will convert glucose to fat; rather, it will utilize glucose to restore depleted levels of energy. Moreover, the chances are essentially zero that fat gain will be acquired with educated carbohydrate consumption.
In 2001, Folch N. Peronnet F, Massicotte D Dulcos M, Lavoie C, and Hillaire-Marcel C. (9) showed that proficient consumption of carbohydrate sources post-workout can actually increase fat-burning and simultaneously increase recovery rates.
The metabolic response to a 150 or 400 g 13C-labelled pasta meal was studied for 8 h following rest or exercise at low or moderate workload (n 6).
Total fat oxidation calculated from 08.00 hours to 20.00 hours was similar in subjects who exercised at low and moderate workloads. These results indicate that:
(1) de novo lipogenesis, which plays only a minor role for the disposal of an acute dietary carbohydrate load, is totally suppressed following exercise, even when a very large carbohydrate load is ingested;
(2) the reduction in glycogen turnover as well as a preferential conversion of glucose into glycogen are responsible for the increase in glycogen stores following exercise;
(3) fat oxidation remained high in subjects who had exercised following both the small (21.8 and 34.1 g) and large meal (14.1 and 32.3 g).
(4) Endogenous glucose oxidation was…totally suppressed in those who had exercised at moderate workload.
The indications of this research trial show that high GI carbohydrates post-workout have the potential to actually boost muscle-building and fat-burning consequences.

Moreover, it was demonstrated in this study that when the subjects exercised at a moderate intensity/workload then consumed a carbohydrate meal, fat oxidation was not repressed at all.
Also, note this experiment was done on moderate intensity exercise.
Bodybuilding is high intensity, and the metabolic effects of a body builder’s program have an even greater potential than the results produced in this study (23).
The study indicates that there is a relationship between intensity and the results the experiment produced.
This can be coupled with the effects shown by nutritional supplementation following consecutive days of resistance training (16).
When the carbohydrate meals were consumed after exercise, glucose oxidation was completely suppressed. This is profound.
The deficiency of glucose oxidation and the discovery of a quantifiable glycogen balance in the subjects illustrates that the carbohydrate sources were utilized completely for the purposes of glycogen synthesis.

Another important finding from this experiment was that, even after the consumption of a high amount of carbohydrates, fat storage was completely suppressed.
Thus, the scientific conclusion of this experiment revealed that post-exercise, the conversion of nutrients such as carbohydrates and protein into fat is highly implausible, in fact essentially zero.
Folch N. Peronnet F, Massicotte D Dulcos M, Lavoie C, and Hillaire-Marcel C.’s test demonstrated:
1. The likelihood for the conversion of carbohydrates > fat is effectively zero post exercise.
2. The fat oxidizing properties of exercise intensity are not impeded by a high carbohydrate meal post-workout.
As a logical consequence, we can conclude that post-workout carbohydrate intake in no way counteracts the body’s overall fat-burning process. This is also exciting as it reveals it is possible to increase muscular density and decrease fat stores simultaneously!

Taking simple carbs PWO has been shown to increase muscular density and decrease fat stores, especially when combined with eating low GI carbs at all other times (excluding PWO).

All these are scientific research, not opinions like many state.

Fructose, fat and fibers PWO are muscle suicide.

Hope that will help with reconstructing your PWO shake.

 

[trojan1444]

My shake doesn't have any fat in it, and the Gatorade has sodium.

So you're saying the fructose from the banana is bad, as well as the maybe 1 or 2 grams of fiber?

 

[anthrax]

Interesting Psykosik,

where does that come from ?

 

[Psykosik]

My shake doesn't have any fat in it, and the Gatorade has sodium.

So you're saying the fructose from the banana is bad, as well as the maybe 1 or 2 grams of fiber?

I was just telling you that's bad. Many people uses bananas and/or oats post-workout. That's horrible.
However, they get results so they think that's optimal.
All i'm saying is that you should include ONLY what's stated at the begining of my post.
Opinion is nothing compared to science


Anthrax, see PM, mate. Glad you're interested.

 

[Xtream]

I was just telling you that's bad. Many people uses bananas and/or oats post-workout. That's horrible.
However, they get results so they think that's optimal.
All i'm saying is that you should include ONLY what's stated at the begining of my post.
Opinion is nothing compared to science


Anthrax, see PM, mate. Glad you're interested.

Is it beter to ingest all your said ingedients at once, or can I be drinking a dext/maltdex drink durining my w/o and then 10-15 mins later, down the whey water and sodium?

 

[njlw226]

i agree drop the banana and gatorade and just stick with dextrose.

 

[JKurz1]

Is it beter to ingest all your said ingedients at once, or can I be drinking a dext/maltdex drink durining my w/o and then 10-15 mins later, down the whey water and sodium?

Read the post in the steroid forum..........many are consuming gatorade while training and a whey dextrose shake post.............or even prior, with great results....take a look.