girls that dont train legs....

[evilqueen]

i would agree, spatts--women hold fat in the lower body. but "fatter" or not, the fact is, my legs GOT BIGGER WHEN I WAS SQUATTING HEAVY.

And just to add "fat" to the fire, my waist thickened up as well. Yes, from doing heavy squats. Takiniteasy, I guess we "get it," even if no one believes us.

Spatts, I know you have a 26-inch waist AND do heavy squats. Genetics, perhaps? Supplements? Different training? From being an athlete all your life? All of the above? I wuold love to know, because I LOVED doing heavy squats. Leg extensions and leg presses just aren't the same.

I got bigger when I did squats, and I got smaller--waist included--when I stopped. No change in diet, either.

Arioch, I never considered being a powerlifter. why do you ask?

 

[SteelWeaver]

Where do you measure thighs anyway? At the top? I've always measured mine midpoint, 20cm up from the middle of the knee. When people say they have 28 inch thighs, where is that 28 inches?

 

[takniteasy]

I see a great difference of opinion here. I think when you have a different goal than the majority (as in on this forum, where I and a couple of other ladies would like to be a little smaller as opposed to increasing our overall mass) you are bound to be confronted. (too early to be thinking of right word

Some women are experienced enough with their bodies to know what works for them and what doesn't. These women also know what they want and don't want. I personally have been much heavier and larger in terms of LBM and I was not comfortable with how I looked. Now I am smaller and more comfortable in my skin. I must be a genetic freak because at my largest my thighs were 27 inches. Naturally w/o AAS. I am only 5''2" and my BF% at that time was ~16. When I leaned out to ~10%, I lost an amazing 3/4" Go figure.

I have trained for long enough to know what my body responds to positively and negatively. I do still squat, just not as heavy. I do more "pretty" excercises now because that works for me.

EQ, if you are seeing positive response to your routines now dont worry about what the rest of this forum is doing. I dont and I still get some great info here and learn something new all the time. And remember that we are in the minority here as most of the women are looking to gain mass.

 

[evilqueen]

Understood. I take what I can use, and leave the rest. But I do learn a LOT here.

And go figure--I've been measuring my thighs at the top, at their widest point. That's where they had to get smaller so I could get them into my pants again.

 

[wilson6]

enough perceptions, now the numbers

Thigh skinfold site is taken parallel to the long axis of the femur at the mid-point of the distance between the inguinal fold and the superior border of the patella while the leg is bent (knee about 90 degree bend). The fold can be taken with the leg bent or straight and resting on a box or floor. I prefer straight as the skin is not as tight.

Mid-thigh girth is taken perpendicular to the long axis of the thigh at the level midway between the trochanterion and tibial lateral sites. It works out to be pretty close to the mid-thigh skinfold site.

SPAT,

you're thigh skinfold measure was 31 mm.

Now the numbers.

From the data we collected a few years ago. I'll use the fitness competitors data that represents national and pro fitness competitors and in-shape fitness models. These women did not have big legs by any stretch.

Their average mid-thigh circumference was 20.2" with an average thigh skinfold of 10.3 mm and bodyfat around 10%. Their upper thigh measure (the biggest part) was 21.7".

In comparison, the contest ready women bodybuilders had a mid-thigh average of 22.4" with an average thigh skinfold of 4.3 mm at about 4% bodyfat.

Here's my point with regard to fat legs and size.

This data is from a national level female BB that I comp'd some years ago getting ready for a show.

Off-season at 25.6% bodyfat, her thigh skinfold was 29 mm and mid-thigh measure was 25.3". Near contest with a bodyfat of 7% and thigh skinfold of 5mm, her mid-thigh circumference was 22.2".
Upper thigh measures were 27.8" and 23.6", off-season and near contest, respectively. So, a decrease of 24 mm in the thigh skinfold represented 3 - 4 " loss in thigh circumference. That's roughly an inch for every 7 mm decrease in thigh skinfold. She didn't lose much muscle mass dieting down and was able to continue squatting 315-335 x 7-10 reps parallel, up until 3 weeks from the show so it is unlikely that she lost much if any leg muscle mass. Thus, the loss in girth represents nearly all fat.

Thus, EvilQ if you dropped your thigh skinfold to 10 mm, you'd probably lose about 1 - 1 1/2" off your thigh circumference (upper and lower, but probably more upper than lower). That would put you at or below the size of the average fitness competitors/models thighs.

Also for visuals, I use a slide that compares a top women pro BB's mid-thigh circumference (contest ready) at 21.3" to the average of 21.7" we measured in the fit, college-aged women that did mostly aerobics with some light leg work. The college women averaged 17% bodyfat so there were lean, but their legs were still bigger than the pro women BB's.

It is still more about fat than muscle in MOST, but not all women.

W6

 

[Cheetarah]

I don't weight train my legs because they are plenty muscular just from speed skating. My quads measure 22 1/2" at the biggest part (top) and my last caliper measurement from 19 July was 14mm at mid thigh with a total body fat of 15.3%. I've spent the past 2 years trying to catch my upper body up to my lower body. So for me, I know that speed skating alone created enough hypertrophy for me to have big legs. I also happen to know that I am a mesomorph but regardless, my legs have always been larger than my upper body, I've always had thick legs even before speed skating. I believe a combination of genetics and speed skating gave me thick legs, so for me, all I need is the proper diet and speed skating to keep them lean.

So I agree with evilqueen, I KNOW if I went back to squatting, the muscle would start adding on! And that is not something I want to happen since my upper body is still out of proportion with my lower body. Also, for speed skating my legs are already too thick for anything but the short distance racing. Everyone in the sport with thick legs have the same problem, our legs tighten up to the point that we can't hardly move them on the longer races. We have tremendous power and strength but it doesn't last for the long races.

Personally, I think there is something about women that along with holding more fat in our lower bodies, also gives us the ability to add muscle quicker to our lower bodies, than to our upper bodies. I think we are just "programmed" that way. I've thought this for years and even more so since I've gotten into bodybuilding. It just seems like most women have an easier time putting muscle on their lower bodies than men do and vice versa.

 

[Cheetarah]

I also have natrually muscular legs from years of playing soccer and competing in track and field. When i started lifting my legs grew much quicker then the rest of me and started to look out of proportion so I had to use less weight and adjusted my rep range. This has helped me to maintain shapley muscular legs that are proprtionate to the rest of my body. the problem is that i am stuck in the same routine b/c i am scared to change it up because I do not want to gain any more muscle in my legs.

So I was wondering can those of you who are mesomorphs like me please post your leg routines so i can get some ideas. thank you so much I appreciate it.

Also I do not have much fat on my legs but they measure 22 inches around at the largest part of my thigh- is this consideerd big or average compared to like bodybuilders and fitness competitors measurements. Sorry so long. Thanks again.

geness, if you are afraid of gaining more muscle in your legs then why not just let the soccer, track & field take care of that? That would be my recommendation. As you may have already read, I'm a speed skater and I do NO weight training for my legs at all. I let the speed skating and my clean diet keep my legs lean (and currently trying to get them leaner). So from one sport competing mesomorph to another, let your diet and the sports you play keep your legs shapely and lean.

 

[BronzedGoddess]

I'm going to have to agree with EvilQueen on this one based on MY BODY. I can not speak for anyone else, but from a genetic standpoint and the fact that I was a sprinter for 6 years. I do not squat much anymore. 1)My legs got to the point to where they were so large that wearing shorts became uncomfortable becuase my legs were rubbing together causing irritation 2)my waist got thicker. I already carry my fat in my midsection so it only made things look worse, and I have very narrow hips so I started to look like a guy. 3)MY calves are genetically challenged and having quads that measure 24inches@5'7 makes them look even smaller. However, most women are not built like me and lifting heavy will help them achieve nice shapely glutes and thighs. One size does not fit all when it comes to bb. What works for one person may not work for another. It's all about trial and error. What's fat to me may not be fat to you, and what's big in my eyes may be puny in yours. Not everyone wants to look like Monica Brant.

W6, I understand what you are saying about fat being the main factor in leg size BUT what "normal" everyday woman wants a body fat mesurement of 4-10% who could even maintain that naturally. You can't really compare everyday women with bb/fitness competitors. If I'm missing your point please forgive me.

 

[wilson6]

"Personally, I think there is something about women that along with holding more fat in our lower bodies, also gives us the ability to add muscle quicker to our lower bodies, than to our upper bodies."

Estrogen is primarily responsible for the leg fat, but I assure you it isn't responsible for the leg muscle mass.

All I was saying is that before you think it is squats that are making your legs bigger, check the skinfold. If it is 15 mm or less, and your mid-thigh measure is 22", than you are one of the genetic leg monster poster children, if it is 20 mm or more, than try getting your bodyfat down to where your leg thigh skinfold is 15 mm, then assess the size issue again.

Why women have the ability to develop muscular legs is unclear, but I wonder how much has to do with long-term genetic coding and developmental training (i.e., what you did when you were young).

It would be interesting to compare a group of gymnasts to speed skaters that didn't do much upper body work in their early years and see how this affects upper to lower body muscle mass proportion.

And, it is not that your legs are too thick for distance, they are probably mostly Type II fiber composition which will most certainly give you size and power, but not endurance. Even if you did nothing and let your legs shrink, you'd still be only suited for short-term power events. The size is a function of the fiber type that dictates the performance capability, which has been genetically determined.

African-American women have even a worse time with symmetry because their thighs hypertrophy easily, but calves do not and are usually high and short. However, their upper body muscle mass develops to a much greater extent than their white counterparts.

W6

 

[wilson6]

The other side of the coin

While I'm thinking about it, there are also some women that have great upper body development but lack legs.

Yax Boyum and JoAnna Thomas are two that come to mind who have great upper bodies, but don't have matching leg thickness.

One's curse is another's blessing I suppose.

W6