Cravings: level of leanness, distance from setpoint, something else???

[SteelWeaver]

Anyone know anything about this? What is more likely to be the culprit for intense sugar cravings:

1) the belief that one is being deprived
2) the level of leanness one is at
3) the distance one is from one's bf setpoint
4) the type of diet one follows
5) all of the above

And would the mechanism be the same in a hypercaloric state. Or if different is the craving mechanism in a hypercaloric state what makes obese people obese?

 

[Gladiola]

I'll second the 'being human' answer. I don't think there is any real answer as to WHY we crave sugar. I recall MS stating that if our ancestors could get the white stuff, they'd probably have chowed down too!

I read a book once called "The sugar addicts total guide to recovery" (Terrible, for the most part) & it stated that some people are "sugar Sensitive". I.E. to me it's AWESOME & I'd kill for it - others can take it or leave it - there's no question this is true. She talked about beta endorphins, etc. Her main theory was 'sugar sentisive' ppl have low BE's & thus get a bigger spike with sweets relative to ppl with healthier BE levels-> MORE of a HIGH.

But what's really true, who knows? I'd love to read more theories on it. Oh, I will add:

7) Habit & Upbringing

 

[makedah]

6 + 7 + 1

6
Humans like the taste of sweet food. Among other things, sweetness signals that food isn't poisonous. Here's an article about an experiment on taste: http://www.unipv.it/dsffcm/celcil/taste.html

7
In our society, most of us have been primed to like overly-sweet food. So we gravitate toward cake instead of apples.

1
A strict diet goes against nature AND years of conditioning - that's why it's so tough.

 

[MS]

Spatts hit it on the head. The cravings are more or less part of being human, though ~30% of humans have a taste receptor which seems to make them want to kill for sweet foods LOL. It's the same for mice, rats and primates. So it's how you handle the cravings that is important. Some drugs/lifestyle factors can help. SSRIs (particularly Prozac) can reduce cravings, some people have moderate success with drugs such as 5-HTP. Keeping blood sugar stable (but not high-stable!!) will help. Moderate leptin levels as long as your leptin sensitivity is good are very important. But all of these things will only work to a certain degree, and when you get much below what your body perceives as a healthy level of bodyfat (this usually means healthy enough for reproduction in my experience), the cravings will become stronger and more urgent. This is where lots of willpower comes into play, because it is positively NOT natural for any animal to deny itself foods it craves when in a hypercaloric state with lots of palatable food available.

 

[starfish]

Spatts hit it on the head. The cravings are more or less part of being human, though ~30% of humans have a taste receptor which seems to make them want to kill for sweet foods LOL. It's the same for mice, rats and primates. So it's how you handle the cravings that is important. Some drugs/lifestyle factors can help. SSRIs (particularly Prozac) can reduce cravings, some people have moderate success with drugs such as 5-HTP. Keeping blood sugar stable (but not high-stable!!) will help. Moderate leptin levels as long as your leptin sensitivity is good are very important. But all of these things will only work to a certain degree, and when you get much below what your body perceives as a healthy level of bodyfat (this usually means healthy enough for reproduction in my experience), the cravings will become stronger and more urgent. This is where lots of willpower comes into play, because it is positively NOT natural for any animal to deny itself foods it craves when in a hypercaloric state with lots of palatable food available.

Where did you see that SSRIs reduce cravings? I have read and experienced the exact OPPOSITE.

 

[MS]

Starfish, The SSRIs and cravings only happens in ~25% of people taking the drugs for depression. That means 75% of depressed folks either don't notice any difference or have increased cravings. It really depends on your neurochemistry to begin with, and depressed people do not respond to SSRIs the same as non-depressed dieters who use them for appetite control or PMS symptoms. On this board I'm talking about use of SSRIs in dieting bodybuilders who are not depressed, but are on lowered carb/calorie diets. Prozac may also help with water partitioning favorably in females.

 

[starfish]

Starfish, The SSRIs and cravings only happens in ~25% of people taking the drugs for depression. That means 75% of depressed folks either don't notice any difference or have increased cravings. It really depends on your neurochemistry to begin with, and depressed people do not respond to SSRIs the same as non-depressed dieters who use them for appetite control or PMS symptoms. On this board I'm talking about use of SSRIs in dieting bodybuilders who are not depressed, but are on lowered carb/calorie diets. Prozac may also help with water partitioning favorably in females.

I'd bet that number is much higher. And I have seen people get prescribed Prozac for dieting and not depression and they ended up 20 pounds fatter.

I would think Wellbutrin would work for dieting, but I would not touch an SSRI unless I truly needed it.

 

[Ceebs]

Wellbutrin is bupropion, which is chemically related to diethylpropion, also known as Tenuate - an anorectic.

 

[MS]

I agree.....neither Prozac nor 5-HTP had any benefit for me when dieting. However I put this info out there for the vast majority of women that may benefit from it. To be very clear, the anorexic effect of Prozac are in ACUTE doses, not the chronic doses used to treat depression. At least 60mg per day are required, and it needs to be cycled. For women on lowered carb/calorie diets I would recommend taking it from day 14 of your cycle until the first day of your period. Also consider supplementing with EFAs and vitamin E while taking your Prozac. 5-HTP can be used synergistically since it will help supply the raw materials needed for serotonin synthesis. This is a very 'off-label' use for this drug, and individual mileage will vary! If you take Prozac chronically, it will not produce any long term weight loss in most people, and some will gain weight (though not as much as with most other anti-Ds).

In many respects, Prozac acts just like supplementing leptin. In this respect, it may not work at it's best until you're already pretty lean and looking to get that much more shredded.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Some days I'm just astonished at what one can learn on these boards!!! Prozac for competition dieting! What next, lol? It kinda makes sense though.

I know I keep harping on cravings, but I'm really interested in finding out why they happen and how to stop them (probably along with every other dieter on the planet).

What's most interesting though is that mine went away. Well, to be more precise, they are considerably less bothersome than they've been in a LONG while.

Two things changed:

I went on a mod-carb, lowish fat diet, after being a complete mess on a carb-cycling plan.

The 12-week mark for my comp. rolled by.

I'm conjecturing that while having a steady amount of carbs every day has influenced things, the main factor here is fear of looking foolish. There's no way in hell I'm getting on a stage in a tiny bikini with fat jiggling here and there. So I have to add to the list here:

8) the absence of an unmitigatable goal which supercedes everything else in importance and which is primarily motivated by fear

I have years to go before I understand more about the chemical and hormonal factors, but is it possible that these factors can be manipulated through pyschological means? Hypnosis? Has this been found to create actual chemical changes/responses?

In the meantime, I guess I'll have some of those whachamacallits, spatts ...