The Biblical Believers....

[beefcake28]

I find the theories of m the Big Bang that i've heard to be much more rational, logical, and just make more sense than anything pertaining to the origin of earth and all its species that I've read in the Bible. Its been shown clearly that evolution is how so much complex life came to be on earth, so if something more complex than us set it all in motion, the first question I'd ask is, who was responsible for that being, and so on. Its an infinite regression that you cannot escape, unlike a circular argument that will become more linear as we get more evidence.

First... Show me where in the Bible where it states HOW God created the earth. It just says that He did. Does it offer any implicit clues to illustrate the actual process of how the Earth came to be? Hmmm... Could it have been created with a "Big Bang"? Most definately. Besides, anyone who knows anything about theology knows that Genesis was written as a general narrative storyline, and is NOT intended to be interpreted literally... which is why I have such a hard time with "New Earth" creationists... but, anyways... Take into consideration the PURELY SCIENTIFIC (non-biblical) findings of the Cambrian and pre-Cambrian eras (i.e. ~540-490 million years ago), specifically during the Nemakit-Daldynian, Tommotian, and Atdabanian eras of the Cambrian period (a total of ~10-15 million years)... and all of a sudden, you have an interesting inquisition regarding a rather prolific, and "explosive", introduction of ALL of the major phyla (again, according to fossil, NOT biblical records), in a rather short timespan, relative to the age of the Earth. Oh, and there are no major intermediates regarding macroevolution (microevolution is a different story altogether). Does this fit into the plausibility of a Creator? Maybe... We can't define that one way or another with any real certainty, but it does provide for an interesting arguement.

If you want to argue science, I've been there, done that. Don't test me. I'm just reiterating that people should explore ALL facets of each arguement before making a personal decision. Even the tiny details. That's all.

As far as what is responsible for the linear regression of a more complex being... Well... good luck figuring that out. That's where the whole "faith" part of religion sets in. We cannot know that in a scientific facet, as that is purely philosophical...

 

[javaguru]

war stories are exactly what they are.. stories as is every other story.

Biblical believers do not take the bible literally, it's most interupted depending on your religion.

I'm not one to debate religion or bash on other peoples religion b/c believing something is a whole lot better than leading an aimless life, to an extent.

I was raised Catholic but I do not practice now but do plan on raising my children the same as I was raised. Will I avoid that because science and the bible conflict? definately not

Many Christians do take the Bible literally...MANY....

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."-Friedrich Nietzsche


PS If you're Catholic then you shouldn't be having pre-marital sex or use birth control. If you don't believe the tenets of your religion then call yourself spiritual but not religious.

PPS Not having a delusion doesn't lead to an "aimless life." It's nothing but religious propaganda;Typical religious bigotry. The most dissatisfied people I know are the strongest believers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

Fact: Atheists have a lower divorce rate than ANY faith based group based on a study conducted by the Barna Research Group, a Christian group that hoped to prove faith based marriages were more successful.

Fact: The US Prison Population
Now, let's just deal with the nasty Christian types, no?

Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%

Atheists, being a large
proportion of the population (about 8-10%?) are
disproportionately less in prison populations (0.21%).

 

[sardonicone]

God tells me to smack up on y'all.

 

[harmonica]

Yeah I took a bunch of theology classes and philo classes..........I've honed it down to being a nice person.....even though I fail at that some of the time.

 

[billfred]

war stories are exactly what they are.. stories as is every other story.

Biblical believers do not take the bible literally, it's most interupted depending on your religion.

I'm not one to debate religion or bash on other peoples religion b/c believing something is a whole lot better than leading an aimless life, to an extent.

I was raised Catholic but I do not practice now but do plan on raising my children the same as I was raised. Will I avoid that because science and the bible conflict? definately not

Good view. I am much the same - it is not that I believe any of the stories in either the new or old bibles, but it does not mean that religion is not a good guideline to follow in your life. You can take the message and move from there.

I would have a hard time even considering myself a christian but I was raised catholic and my kids are as well, even go to catholic school. It is more of a heritage thing now to me than a religion. Plus, catholics tend to be a little more fond of the grape - and that is always more fun.

 

[UA_Iron]

People have a tendency to shut down when you call out their religion. One can provide all the facts, point out all the logical inconsistencies, offer better viewpoints and they just put up a wall to thinking differently.

We try to understand that faith is a natural response in humans. Victor Stenger, in his book Physics and Psychics, raises a tough question: “If supernatural beliefs were simply the product of the unsophisticated thinking patterns of early humans, then they should have largely faded away in our scientific age. Yet every survey of people’s beliefs continues to indicate a strong majority who believe in God, angels, the devil, astrology, and various other occult and supernatural phenomena.” [69]

A possible answer, says Stenger, comes when we consider the advent of the city, which “forced people into greater dependencies on one another.” He continues, “Humanity became social. Leaders were now needed to keep some kind of civil order, and the village shaman and temple priest, with their supposed supernatural powers, proved to be effective in keeping everyone in line.” [70] Stenger suggests that we “call upon materialism for a reasonable hypothesis: religion evolved by a process analogous to the natural selection that produced us and every other living species. Religious belief may now be deeply programmed in our DNA. This may have happened because, at one time, such beliefs provided a survival advantage for the people who had such coded information in their genes.” [71]

 

[harmonica]

People have a tendency to shut down when you call out their religion. One can provide all the facts, point out all the logical inconsistencies, offer better viewpoints and they just put up a wall to thinking differently.

Primal reaction

 

[billfred]

Many Christians do take the Bible literally...MANY....

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."-Friedrich Nietzsche


PS If you're Catholic then you shouldn't be having pre-marital sex or use birth control. If you don't believe the tenets of your religion then call yourself spiritual but not religious.

PPS Not having a delusion doesn't lead to an "aimless life." It's nothing but religious propaganda;Typical religious bigotry. The most dissatisfied people I know are the strongest believers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

Fact: Atheists have a lower divorce rate than ANY faith based group based on a study conducted by the Barna Research Group, a Christian group that hoped to prove faith based marriages were more successful.

Fact: The US Prison Population
Now, let's just deal with the nasty Christian types, no?

Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%

Atheists, being a large
proportion of the population (about 8-10%?) are
disproportionately less in prison populations (0.21%).

That is just becuase the people in prison are trying to get paroloe so they are all of a sudden born again christians. They know they are never going to get parole by saying - I don't believe in god man.

 

[the_clockwork]

Many Christians do take the Bible literally...MANY....

Yes I know this is true but for the most part I would say the majority do not.

PS If you're Catholic then you shouldn't be having pre-marital sex or use birth control. If you don't believe the tenets of your religion then call yourself spiritual but not religious.

Again to be Catholic does not mean you have to abide by every rule they have. It's a state of mind not a state of living.

FACT: There is no proof from ANYONE that explains how the world was created. Yes there are theories but they are not facts. How can you bash on someone elses way yet support your way, it's hypocritical.

PPS Not having a delusion doesn't lead to an "aimless life." It's nothing but religious propaganda;Typical religious bigotry. The most dissatisfied people I know are the strongest believers.

This is about as stereotypical as ever. I have a friend that owns a german shepard and his life SUCKS, therefore; ALL german shepard owners have shitty lives. No your life won't be "aimless" as I pointed out in the first statement I said to an extent. What exactly does an athetist have to look forward to after death? Is someone wrong for having hope and desire for an afterlife? I think it's beneficial for someone to lead their life on a track, for the better, in hopes of it paying off in the end.

Fact: Atheists have a lower divorce rate than ANY faith based group based on a study conducted by the Barna Research Group, a Christian group that hoped to prove faith based marriages were more successful.

Maybe so but I bet comparision levels of Atheists vs Religious types are a little slanted. There are far more Religious people in the population than Atheists. Besides Atheism is a little strange in the first place, it's believing in not believing

Fact: The US Prison Population
Now, let's just deal with the nasty Christian types, no?

Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%

Atheists, being a large
proportion of the population (about 8-10%?) are
disproportionately less in prison populations (0.21%).

This is a trend. What is the most prodominant religion in the world? Of course they are going to lead every "statistic" when they have double the numbers of everyone else.

The trend now is Buddism. You go to a prison now and there are Buddist everywhere. I have worked in a prison so I can safely say this. Go to prison and convert to Buddism. It's a trend not a lifestyle.


PS - I respect an educated, non threatening debate. I'll debate but not going to argue

 

[Lestat]

I like the detail of your argument, and I too have studied evolution and notice that there are periods in history (based on fossil records) where great changes come in relatively shorter time spans.

Could there have been a creator that set of the big bang? Sure, I can't disprove that. BUT again, just because I can't disprove it, doesn't mean its likely. I do not think the evidence points to that at all.

Again, if there was a creator that set off the big bang, the first thing I want to know is, who or what created THAT creator, and so on and so for. So that line of reasoning is largely unsatisfying as well.