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i think ill quit dieting, and just do massive cardio to get ripped

  • Thread starter Thread starter nclifter6feet6
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nclifter6feet6

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ive gotten to the point to where ive dieted down. ive gotten ripped. but the road to ripdness has never been easy. ive been there done that. and i cant stay ripped year round while eating like a bird all the time because it flat out sucks. so im thinking im going to eat whatever i want and just do as much cardio as i can possibly handle sacrificing muscle too. but im just gonna see how this goes i plan on doing 5 miles or more per day everday and maybe some sprints too. and if five miles isnt enough ill keep upping it while hitting each bodypart once per week(only lifting wieghts 2 times per week half body on one day half body on next day)
 
i dont think its worth feeling hungry and shitty all day when all u gotta do is kick out an hour per day of hardcore cardio. i mean its good for the heart and good for the lungs perfect for calves. and get to eat anything. and plus my muscles always look fuller when im carbed up to they look a hell of alot bigger. i plan on hitting the stairs at the stadium today.

i mean whats the point of always dieting.....to just get fat again, when u come off the diet???????????????/
 
also, afterall its pretty much how all football players train. they lift weights some but mostly do sprints at practice. LOTS of sprints and they are big and huge and eat whatever
 
well if you're sick of one thing, you're eventually going to get sick of the other soon enough.

So with that in mind, just plan on doing things the tried and true way in phases. You're sick of dieting, then hey, winter's coming, start packing on muslce and then when youre tired of doing that, you'll be mentally refreshed to diet again and lose the fat you may have gained. No reason to go avant garde and eat like a pig (to gain mass) and do mass cardio(to lose mass) and expect everything to work out right. You'll just get pissed int he end when it don't work out. Like I said if you're bored take some advice and change up, but change up the right way.
 
Dieting is not as catabolic as all that running you're planning to do. In other words, the two are not interchangeable. My guess is that you will get smaller and flabbier.
 
I think as long as you don't go totally nuts on food, your plan will work. In fact, I think this is better than simply dieting to lose fat. You get many more benefits:

1) burn a shitload of cals doing cardio, and you get an elevated BMR for hours afterwards

2) you get the benefits of the "thermogenic effect of food"; i.e. the calories your body burns digesting the food itself

3) you improve your cardiovascular health

The only reason I couldn't do such a program is b/c of the time it'd take to do all that cardio. But if you can hack, I say go for it. Good luck!
 
I'd do sprints in the morning, then 5 miles late at night. You said once you worked construction right?..that will def burn some calories. But you do know that once the body senses that you are burning so many calories compared to what you take in (over 1000 kcal deficit) it will react by slowing your metabolism at other points in the day to make up for deficit and start hoarding food which means a net fat loss for the day of 0....

NC you should look for the post on this board made by someone in the anabolic forum about fukkenshredded's training from Anabolic Fitness. He eates burgers, etc does real intense cardio and doesnt go above 8 all year..I think you'd like it.
 
:o Running 5 miles a day?!

Kiss your muscles goodbye!

If you meet someone who does 5 miles a day or see a 5 mile a day jogger you will know exactl what I mean.
 
OK, I have some experience with doing tons of cardio. First of all, I don't think its going to help with your hunger problems. You are going to be starving a few hours after a long cardio workout. Its REALLY easy to overeat in that case, and actually take in more calories then you burned up doing the cardio. So if you have problems controlling yourself, this method might not be the best.

However, running 5 miles a day is no big deal. You might lose a bit of muscle, but if you eat right it shouldn't be much. I agree that dieting sucks, but its VERY tough to lose fat from cardio. You need to do alot to burn off just a bit of fat.

I think your best bet is to do moderate to low amounts of cardio (3-5 miles, 4-5 times a week), and loosen up your diet.
 
My Thoughts

I haven't been back in the game to be qualified to say much. But I know that it's easier to ingest calories than it is to burn them. If you do that much running you will end up losing muscle. When cutting time comes around you ever try cutting down on carbs and just ingest good amounts of protein and healthy fats? I know that the CKD works very well. I have had friends do it. I'm not into the science of it, but here's an easy way of cutting down. Cut out carbs to around 0-20 grams a day (make sure they're low glycemic) and pig out on protein/fat. Fat isn't really good for you in excessive amounts. Try to take in healthy fats if you can, like fats from fish, olive oil...etc Protein will fill you up more than carbs, so you'll end up taking in less calories. I've went on it before and it's hard for me b/c I go brain dead at work. Carbs are needed for my brain to function. Some people can do well with out it. Then one day a week eat some carbs, but not too much. I believe it's okay to go on a splurge once in a while, as long as it's not an every day thing. Just my thoughts.
 
CytoMel, people who jog alot, normally don't lift weights, and don't eat that much. If they ate like a bodybuilder and lifted weights, joggers would carry much more muscle. However, the extra weight would only tire them out more quickly, and would be counter productive. Thats why endurance atheletes are so thin, extra bulk doesn't help, so they don't let themselves bulk up.

A good example is Lance Armstrong. Before he had cancer, he had a relatively muscular build. He was a good cyclist, but not great. The cancer caused him to lose 20 lbs of lean weight. That is 20 pounds less he had to drag for 120 miles up and down 6000 foot mountains. His body didn't have to expend as much energy because he was lighter, which made him a better cyclist. After losing the weight, he went on to win 4 tour de Frances, and is probably going to go on and break the record of 5 wins.

So don't sweat a bit of cardio, it won't make your muscles waste away.
 
Haz said:
CytoMel, people who jog alot, normally don't lift weights, and don't eat that much. If they ate like a bodybuilder and lifted weights, joggers would carry much more muscle. However, the extra weight would only tire them out more quickly, and would be counter productive. Thats why endurance atheletes are so thin, extra bulk doesn't help, so they don't let themselves bulk up.

A good example is Lance Armstrong. Before he had cancer, he had a relatively muscular build. He was a good cyclist, but not great. The cancer caused him to lose 20 lbs of lean weight. That is 20 pounds less he had to drag for 120 miles up and down 6000 foot mountains. His body didn't have to expend as much energy because he was lighter, which made him a better cyclist. After losing the weight, he went on to win 4 tour de Frances, and is probably going to go on and break the record of 5 wins.

So don't sweat a bit of cardio, it won't make your muscles waste away.

A bit of cardio is fine but a bit is like 5-10 miles a week. 5 miles a day is 35 miles a week. That is a ton of cardio!

I think nclifter wants to be big and ripped but he will burn more muscle than fat doing all that running.

All of those long distane endurance athletes prove my point. They all wasted away their muscles doing a ton of cardio. Some of them even lift weights but they dont look like it because of the huge catabolic effects of those multiple hour cardio sessions a day.

Try that 5 miles of cardio a day and you will lose a ton of muscle and end up with numerous leg injuries especially someone who is 200+ pounds.
 
[
i mean whats the point of always dieting.....to just get fat again, when u come off the diet???????????????/ [/B]


A "diet" is a way of eating. You don't get fat coming off a diet, you need to find a diet- or way of eating that suits you and will accomplish your goals. Tons of cadio is not the answer, I've done that route while eating a abundance of cals, you will still put on fat. I don't see why you make dieting so tuff, you post new threads on it constantly. Find something that works for you something that you can maintain for long periods of time without going crazy. Allow yourself to eat what ever you want once a week to prevent you from going crazy and feeling deprived. It will be something you can look forward to. Sure you can eat a ton of carbs and appear big and smooth and less vascular, is that what your looking for? What are your goals?
 
Arnold used to run 3 miles a day, and he had a decent amount of muscle. 5 miles ain't shit. I used to do 7-8 miles a day and didn't lose much at all. Once the body becomes used to the cardio it becomes very efficient and you don't lose much weight.
 
After running a marathon, the average weight loss is four pounds. Three of which is water.

Of the remaining one pound, at least half is muscle.

That means it requires running 26 miles in a couple of hours in order to lose a few ounces of fat.

How much fat do you think you're going to lose running 5 miles a week?

Aerobics are the big lie.
 
I think that Haz had the answer to the problem with aerobics -- your body will adapt and burn less and less calories doing the same activities. That's why a lot of people talk about switching up on your aerobic exercises and doing interval training instead of distances.

You have to prevent your body from adapting or you'll have to continuously increase the intesity to attain the same results.
 
since when did the body learn to stop burning calories? To say your body will burn less and less calories doing the same activity is nonsence. Where's the magic switch that turns of calorie burning? The more muscle to fat ratio you aqquire will even increase calorie burning. Therefore, loosing fat will make you burn calories at a higher more efficient rate.
 
The magic switch that turns off calorie burning is called adaptation. Once the body can perform a task well it requires less energy (calories) to do it -- which is why progressive resistance exercise (i.e. weight lifting) is the only logical choice toward burning fat. Aerobics are just a less effective form of exercise. In other words, they're a waste of time.


Now watch...someone will say; "What about working your HEART!" (That one always makes me chuckle.)
 
No, I don't agree, show me studies on this belief. Calories are burned for energy. Like a fire burns wood. Your telling me that when a fire gets burning well -it requires less wood to keep burning? That being said, to keep the body performing an activity it will keep burning calories, theres no shut off switch -sorry.
 
From what I've read on this stuff thus far, I'd have to agree with Solid. It doesn't make much sense that the body will burn less just because it's used to that exercise.
 
The wood burning example just isn't analogous to a living organism. Studies? Do a search yourself. I don't have the studies available that explain the concept of gravity but it still exists.

Of course the body will use less energy for something it's used to. This is common sense -- or if you prefer, common law of physiology. The more exertion required, the more energy expelled.
 
So did Conan get so cut from turning that wheel for so many years? :D

Nelson Montana said:
After running a marathon, the average weight loss is four pounds. Three of which is water. Of the remaining one pound, at least half is muscle. That means it requires running 26 miles in a couple of hours in order to lose a few ounces of fat. How much fat do you think you're going to lose running 5 miles a week?
Aerobics are the big lie.

First off, running a marathon in a couple of hours would be a rather stunning feat if you have either excess bodyfat or muscle. By sheer numbers, on paper, yes, it would amount to at most a half pound of fat loss. However, what must be considered is how fat is utilized for energy in cardio activities repeated several times during a weekly period, in which case, there is different energy expenditure based on level of hydration, body demand vs. tissue nutrient availability, intensity, conditioning, external and still more internal factors, etc.

Aside from the fact that contrary to popular belief that cardio only burns fat while you are doing it, there are metabolic changes that accompany a sustained schedule cardio program. The efficiency that occurs is also a function of the adaptation that you are speaking of. One of the adaptations that occurs is the body's desire to speed the metabolism in attempt to prevent excess body mass from becoming an obstacle for future cardio work efforts. Additionally, the calories burned at the beginning of a cardio session are not the same types burned later in the same session. If they were, we would all be sweating within moments of starting cardio and there would generally be less of a decline in available energy. We're getting into a whole new ball game at this point as hormones and neurotransmitters are also key players in the game of determining available energy production pathways. So I will not delve into it too deeply as this is already going to be a long post.

What I believe you are not calculating is energy production and how it is affected by physiological mechanisms. Take for instance intensity & conditioning: both factors are relative in terms of how a given individual will respond to the stress of cardio. If we were all the same level of conditioning we would all have the same level of intensity. Human applied physics verifies that work and work duty are functions of effort, load and other factors. Greater load (person with more mass) is going to mirror greater effort for a given amount of work in comparison to a lesser load for the same work duty. In English, a heavier person walking up a long flight of stairs is going to have not only more exertion than a skinny person but greater load. This does not change nearly regardless of bodymass type. In the case of a skinny person and a bodybuilder walking up the long flight of stairs, the work effort is going to mirror the load capacity for both, but in quantifiable terms, it takes greater effort for the bodybuilder.

Adaptation can and does occur for many functions of the body. Adaptation is the shortcut of the body to do less work by way of lessening either load or work. The most successful way the body can do this is by way of bodymass reduction. Equal and opposing forces that cause a need for adapatation definitely apply in this case. If one is doing a ton of cardio, working out with progressive resistance training and eating according to good nutrition principles, then the body will have stimulus to be able to adapt to the workload of working out by maintaining muscle mass, as well as adapting to the cardio exercise by metabolically utilizing the tissue that will satisfy the adaptation need. In this case, it is fat. But let me underscore that there must be adequate nutritional principles in play here for this to be successful in terms of muscle mass maintenance and fat loss simultaneously.

If one ONLY works out with weights, unless one takes all measures possible to avoid adaptation (risking overtraining in some cases) then the body will attempt to adapt just the same albeit in a different mechanism. If this is not the case, then there would be no need for pro bodybuilders to ever need drugs for cutting...everyone would be ripped to the bone already just from eating right and lifting weights.

Yet I think we can all agree that if an overweight person started exercising by preparing for a triathlon and eating the right foods that their body would adapt by dropping weight. In my opinion, the big lie about cardio for many people may be in the readiness for the body to return to previous body fat set point should they cease activity. I won't argue with that.

But to say that cardio is a big lie in my opinion is far from the truth as many people have come to know. That it is just one part in the role of losing excess bodyfat I do agree.
 
BAckDoc. A very articulate reply. But it's wrong.

I'll try and address each point as you presented them.

Of course the calories burned at the end of a cardio session (or any session for that matter) is greater because the stress to the body has accumulated. You're convoluting the issue with a lot of specious supposedly scientific speculation. (A common trait on these threads). Allow logic to speak for itself.

Next: A person's weight is just one factor. A 150 pound out of shape person will exert more energy than a 200 pound conditioned person. That ends this argument.

The fact that the body magically goes into "fat burning mode" when doing low level activity, yet doesn't burn fat when doing a high level activity is one of the most preposterous ideas being perpetuated in the fitness and bodybuilding community. It's just parroted misinformation. Geez, even Kenneth Cooper (the guy who came up with the term "aerobics") admitted this wasn't the case.

Your comment that if weight lifting were all that was needed then pros wouldn't have to resort to drug use doesn't even have anything to do with this discussion.

Concerning the remark that cardio is a part of burning fat that " many people" have come to know" is a presumption. True, many people erroneously believe it to be so, but the sheer numbers of incorrect people has nothing to do with the truth at hand.

In the past, I have offered a challenge to readers of my work. They were to cut calories, and cut ALL aerobic training, and replace it with an equal duration of "pump style" weight training. Many people argued, spouting study after study after study. Yet, EVERYONE who followed the advice agreed: The fat loss results were far better with an all weight training regime than with a weight training/cardio regime.

Aerobics are the big lie. Deal with it.
 
Nelson Montana said:
BAckDoc. A very articulate reply. But it's wrong. I'll try and address each point as you presented them. Of course the calories burned at the end of a cardio session (or any session for that matter) is greater because the stress to the body has accumulated. You're convoluting the issue with a lot of specious supposedly scientific speculation. (A common trait on these threads). Allow logic to speak for itself.Next: A person's weight is just one factor. A 150 pound out of shape person will exert more energy than a 200 pound conditioned person. That ends this argument. The fact that the body magically goes into "fat burning mode" when doing low level activity, yet doesn't burn fat when doing a high level activity is one of the most preposterous ideas being perpetuated in the fitness and bodybuilding community. It's just parroted misinformation. Geez, even Kenneth Cooper (the guy who came up with the term "aerobics") admitted this wasn't the case.Your comment that if weight lifting were all that was needed then pros wouldn't have to resort to drug use doesn't even have anything to do with this discussion.Concerning the remark that cardio is a part of burning fat that " many people" have come to know" is a presumption. True, many people erroneously believe it to be so, but the sheer numbers of incorrect people has nothing to do with the truth at hand. In the past, I have offered a challenge to readers of my work. They were to cut calories, and cut ALL aerobic training, and replace it with an equal duration of "pump style" weight training. Many people argued, spouting study after study after study. Yet, EVERYONE who followed the advice agreed: The fat loss results were far better with an all weight training regime than with a weight training/cardio regime. Aerobics are the big lie. Deal with it.



I'm not going to buy your book just to hear your scientific rationale. I understand that posting your references could limit book sales if you divulge them, so I won't press you to do so. I guess I'm just not a propaganda junkie who feels that the fitness and bodybuilding community has so successfully kept hidden the real truths that the developers of the Roswell Project would turn green with envy.

If logic spoke for itself in this case, as you put it---or more aptly---if it always spoke the truth, we'd all be good listeners and there would be no need for statements to the contrary.

By the way, "pump style weight training" instead of cardio for the purposes of weight loss is not a new concept.
 
Hmm

I think you have got the wrong IDEA on the whole diet cutting thing. I was at around 5% bf for 3 months, it was the greatest time of my life, I loved waking up and having abs without flexing, not to sound like an ass, but any chanche I got to go shirtless I would, or wear a tank top. Then I said Okim gonna bulk put on 40lbs and I became an unhappy mess. Im now around 200 at 6% bf, and my main goal is to maintain my level of cutness and bodyfat. I dont diet, I eat on a plan, I take the foods I love, and make them taste good, or find healthy alternatives. I also eat alot of fiber which really fulls you up. When Cutting I do bodyweight X 10 divided into 6=8 meals. When Maintaining like right now I do bodyweight X 11 2 days bodyweight X 12 2 days, and 3 days at X 13. If I know im gonna go out and drink or have a dinner date I eat less all day and save my calories. You cant get fat from one meal, just stay on track. Here is a typical day of eating for me Hope this kinda helps

8am 3/4 C Oat Meal, I add equal and Cinnamon
1 Scoop of Whey 335cals
11am 10 Egg whites, 4 peices of lowfat high fiber Whole wheat bread, gives me 30grams of protein 40 carbs, and 1 gram of fat.
310Cals
1pm 2 Roast Beef Sandwhiches, healthy choice Roastbeef 4 oz, 2oz on each sandwhich, fat free mayo, and that high fiber bread
300cals
3pm 1 Cup refried beans, 1 all natural whole wheat tortilla, and salsa, 320cals
6pm Chicken Steak, Veggies, 400cals
9pm 3 scoops of whey, 2 scoops of citrucel, makes my whey slow digesting, and gets released all night long
330Cals
 
NC-
I think I see your problem. You're going from one extreme to another all the time. You'll go on 1200cal/day diets for a month, then hit up 6000cal/day (if I remember right) for a month and keep switching. So here's my advice: Forget the "cutting" and "bulking." Get to a bodyfat you feel compfortable with and just try to maintain it while adding some muscle slowly. There's no need to torture yourself w/a diet or gain a ton of fat when you wanna bulk up.
You work construction all day, so you're very active, plus you weigh, what, about 240? And you're 6'6''? That's a ton of calories you can eat right there just to maintain. Just eat around maintenence cals and lift, and do some cardio if you want.
Basically, I think you're over-complicating everything and looking for the quickest results (I'm the same way) you can get. Just make smart food choices, lift and don't focus so much on what you're eating.
 
Oh yeah, almost forgot. When you're trying to figure out maintenence cals, try tapering up slowly. I went from eating about 1200-1500 cals a day (I was tryin' to lose fat really quick) to 2000, then 2500, 3000, etc. I found out my maintenence cals are around 4000 - 5000. This was over the holidays last year, and for a time I basically did nothing but eat and lift. Put on a good 10 - 15 lbs. w/minimal fat (any fat I gained I had lost w/in 2 or 3 weeks of lowering carbs) gain. Just taper up your calories until you find your set-point, then if you're goin' to the beach or somethin' you can just drop cals and do some cardio for a few weeks, look good and not feel like shit.
 
Good points before Nelson.

A few points of my own:

1. What you are EATING (food intake and choices) is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT for losing fat than cardio or supplements. Its not even close.

2. Cardio will make a strong man weak and a weaker man into a shadow of his former self. I am talking about HUGE amounts like 1+ hour a day will burn off more muscle than fat. Sure you will lose some fat but you will look like a weak peice of cardio catastrophy.

3. Look at the cardio users at the gym. They look the exact same now as they did last year in my gym.

4. Weight training fast paced like Poliquins fatloss program or Meltdown Training on www.t-mag.com will burn fat better than any aerobic program.

5. Richard Simmons does aerobics all the time! Look at what will happen to you if you travel 5 miles a day down that road :bawling:
 
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