periodization of "vitamins" along with athletic season

[triguy]

Using "vitamins" for sport performance & using them for muscle growth are two diffrent things. In many sports they train thru a periodization model. Shouldnt athletes periodize their supplement program?

Reading "fausts gold", book on the east german doping program & they only used 6 months of the year and for 4 weeks at a time (dont qoute me on this).

Anyone have any ideas on periodizing vitamins?

EX:
3 weeks of successive building in volume weeks with 1 low volume rest week at the end.

thats 1 month

vitamin usage 3 weeks then hpta boosting products that low volume week?


hypothetical situation:

3 weeks low dose test + aromasin

4week (low volume week) hcg & clomid (nolvadex increases shbg & has a estrogen rebound)

5th week (increasing volume week) back on low dose test + aromasin

usually in an a olympic athletes season where one needs to peak for certain competitions they will take a break mid season. This break one could go completely off or "cruise" ?

 

[rider]

tri guy-
im not sure about the "vitamin" schedule, i mean conventional wisdom tells us we need to do somewhere in the range of an 8 to 12 week test cycle following up w/ clomid etc. etc. One reason Im not sure this idea would be a good one is that you never really give your receptors time to recover, i mean you always hear time on should equal time off but even though you'd be doing a low dose for a short period of time I still think you need to fully recover. Its an interesting idea though. The good thing is that you would be doing all of your most important training while "on". I think if you want to stay on something all year just get some HGH and run 3-5iu's everyday for as long as you want, should probably use some insulin in there as well. Well let me know what you think and what you will be doing, take care and happy training.
rider

 

[fhg43]

okay for triguy-

Usually 'vitamin' periodization is dependent on the training and event schedule. Last winter I used some vitamins during my winter base training. It was a 12 wk cycle that cover most of my big training. It ended about 5 weeks before my first major event where there would be testing. I actually ended it too soon-I could have gone longer.

So setup the vitamins to coincide with a period of hard training and/or a period of intense racing. Rider and I need to be careful as we could be tested (however I now feel that the cycling federation has zero money for drug testing based on the number of major races last season that they DID NOT test at-rider will back me up-we did a major US race with some Euro guys in attendance and it was STOOOPID fast and there was ZERO testing-ZERO-and certain US riders were tearing the legs off of the rest of us pros included-yeah they were clean-NOT!).

One thing I discovered recently is that AAS will boost hcrit count almost as well as EPO, besides adding muscular strength. So that maybe the best option. Recovery from an anabolic is the issue, however. Normal hormone function needs to be restored quickly. Post cycle recovery is almost as important as the cycle itself. Clomid and hCG, recovery drugs, are both banned and both detectable about 4 weeks after usage. This tends to push the end of the cycle further from the target event. So one must weigh anabolic recovery vs. benefit vs. retention of gains (hematologically and muscularly) vs. importance of event. I think HGH, low dose test, and EPO are the pros' drugs of choice for those reasons since they are almost impossible to detect. AndroGel and AndroDerm (gel and patch) are mild dose of Test typically used as hormone replacement for older men (and Dario Frigo). Frigo might have been on to something as both items are Test in water based transdermal suspension. Both are legit pharmaceuticals that have been show to raise test levels (obviously-they are anabolics). Both are nearly undetectable as they are little more than Test in a natural carrier. Here is the kicker: besides the obvious benefits of testosterone, the gel was shown to raise hcrit to 65 in one case and usually over 52!!! And the gel is pretty much undetectable-monkeyballs told me this and he is very very knowledgeable.

Low dose test seems to be the best route to go. Avoid suspensions as the oil will delay clearance. Winstrol is a very good choice but takes time to clear-same w/anavar. Low dose test could possibly run thru an event where as winstrol and anavar could not.

One thing to keep in mind is that the drugs should be used for more for training than anything. They will allow your to train at a very high level for an extended period of time. After an appropriate rest period your body should recover from the training and then the cycle. Typically this rest should allow for supercompensation i.e. body overadapts to the stress and your fitness level raises. Two cycles per year is probably the max you'd wanna do-one during offseason/early season and one close to a major goal during the season (you need to be careful about this cycleof course).

Triguy, there is very little chance your 'greyhound' will ever be tested for 'vitamins'. So you could astuff the poor thing full of anything! Combined with your tent to dog should be quite fast.

FHG

 

[BallzoutSprinter]

Hey triguy,

wow, where to start.... too much.. let me sum up... i been searching the web forever with regard to EPO, and until today havent found anyone that sounded intelligent with regard to EPO vs other potentially enhancing drugs... i am a cyclist... im about to turn 32, i know i wont ever race the tour, i started way too late, but i am talented, and i know i will get to cat 2 this year... that being said, everyone whispers "hush hush" about what everyone else is on... at that level, almost everyone is on something... i have read for the last 4 hours straight alot of posts on this site, and there seems to be many different approaches to "enhancement"... so... which route? I am a sprinter, and i hate hills... i could stand to lose about 5 pounds, that would take me to 170 and about 6% BF..... epo sounds scary... like i would need docs supervision... how do you find a doc in the states that would do that? i have thought about looking for a doctor in Tijuana, but dont know how viable that would be either... i did a 2 month cycle of hgh about 6 months ago, and i couldnt tell if it did a thing or not... maybe it was bunk?? maybe i didnt do it right... who knows... was from Serano... serostim... anyway... man i sure would appreciate some direction from you or anyone else on this site that could help me get educated and avoid any of the pitfalls.... last note... i am the words biggest sissy, I can do an SC injection, but IM is something i am trying to avoid like the plague.... any thoughts???? and as i read... train train train train... i know.. i got that part down..... hehe... thanks in advance for any/all responses... I wish everyone well.

 

[rider]

I really like where this post is going, and yes, that major US race was out of control.. no testing at an event like that is bullshit, yet somehow I am really looking forward to going back again next year, ah well maybe in a few years Ill be the one all jacked up tearing everyones legs off, untill then I guess I just have to put my time in. Those gel and patches seem very intersting, but remember if you are on during the season and the HCrit goes that high and all of sudden you are getting blood tested.. adios. I know, Ive only been blood tested once in my life and that was at the World Championships so its probably not likely but its not a risk Im willing to take just yet. Also you need to be careful with your test to epitest ratio.. anything over a 6:1 will get you bounced (providing you get tested of course). To me it seems to make the most sense to do something like Test Prop 50mg ED during the off season because that has a detection window of only 2 weeks, it does mean daily IM injections which sucks but are we not bike racers? also, great point saying that these drugs should be used for training, there are plenty of things to take just for race day but I guess thats another thread entirley.

BallzOut- I dont think its true that everyone at that level is on something, Ive been clean my entire life and im a Cat. 1 Im pretty sure FHG made it to Cat 1 all on his own devices as well (correct me if im wrong FHG) so although not everyone is on something, most of them are. Taking EPO doesnt really require a docs suppervision, although it would be nice. I think as long as you are getting blood tested once a week you should be okay, and dont take some crazy ass doses either.. ive got a list of how much, when, and what to take with it ill post it soon I just need to find it (haha go race in europe and you learn all the tricks) As for your 2 month HGH cycle, I dont think that is long enough.. you really need to be on that for atleast 20 weeks to get some benefit, did you take slin with it? if not that could be a problem as well, you really should use slin w/ GH. And if you wanna race bikes and take drugs you gotta be able to put a needle in yer ass, its not a big deal. Take care and happy training
rider

 

[BallzoutSprinter]

Rider,

heya, thanks for responding to my query.... ok, so.. i stand corrected... not EVERYONE is on something..... so... what should i be taking during the off season.... funds arent a problem as much as me sticking a needle in myself is... so... if u had unlimited funds to do some kind of cycle during the off season.... what would it be? also.... i did not stack the Growth with insulin.... i knew too little about it at the time, and people warned me that there was big benefits/dangers in using insulin at the same time.... so, i shy'd away.... anyway.... i know i can get to cat 1/2 by the end of next season, even without anything extra.... but, i dont want to wait that long, and..... right now, i have hit a frustrating plateau.... that 4 day weekend in Vegas didnt help.... so... type away friend.... tell me anytyhing and everything that you are willing to... ej-ya-kate me..... lol..... thanks again for all your help.

 

[rider]

whew, now thats a question.. if I had unlimited funds what would I do... FHG probably knows more about this kind of thing than me but id probably get on HGH right now at maybe 6iu's a day stacked w/ slin 5 days a week and stay on untill well stay on for the entire season if you can, it certainly wont hurt. If you dont want to stay on all season i would get a few runs of EPO and use that for some key events. I dunno man, thats a tough question.. what would you do FHG? doing a low dose test prop cycle is another option, it also depends on your source.. there is some really funky shit out there that can make you really fast. Id love to hear some other guys thoughts on this question. Again, good question and happy training. rider

 

[BallzoutSprinter]

Rider,

ok, i just have to know then... you said you have been clean all your life... you have never taken anything? No AS, No HGH, nothing???? if thats what you say, ill believe you, but then answer this... how in the world do you know so much about all of this... you do have to admit you have incredibly specific knowledge... so, either you are a scientist, or a doctor... or, im missing something????... either way... im just mainly curious and fascinated to know how you know so much?????

 

[triguy]

gotta luv rider & fhg!!!! karma to ya

"receptors time to recover"

As endurance athletes were interested in RBC, Recovery, strength. Do we know if our receptors dont recover these three things turn in a negative direction????? I "think" receptor theories have been mainly applied to muscle growth-which most endurance athletes could care less. Also, theres much debate as to "receptor saturation" concerns.

Thanx, for the test gel info.

I'm gonna do some research on how the east germans did their programs an ill post my thoughts.

 

[triguy]

gotta luv rider & fhg!!!! karma to ya

"receptors time to recover"

As endurance athletes were interested in RBC, Recovery, strength. Do we know if our receptors dont recover these three things turn in a negative direction????? I "think" receptor theories have been mainly applied to muscle growth-which most endurance athletes could care less. Also, theres much debate as to "receptor saturation" concerns.

Thanx, for the test gel info.

I'm gonna do some research on how the east germans did their programs an ill post my thoughts.