periodization of "vitamins" along with athletic season

[rider]

Ballzout-
To be perfectly honest, I have been clean all of my life. I also just turned 20 years old so that has alot to do with it, I am doing the research now because I know at some point if I want to continue racing my bike Im going to have to take drugs. I graduated High School in 2001 and I havent yet gone to Univ. so pretty much my day revolves around training and doing research on this kind of shit. Keep in mind there are alot of guys on this board that know a hell of a lot more than me, FHG, Triguy to name a few. Im glad you joined this thread as you have posted some great questions, stick around and lets all get real fast. Take care
rider

 

[BallzoutSprinter]

hey triguy, fhg..... where can that test gel be found??? also... i saw something mentioning masteron as a good choice, but expensive... can u explain the difference?? plz?? also... my original question begs being answered.... unlimited funds.... first cycle ever... only 3 months to get it done.... mid nov, to mid jan....possibly extending it to mid feb.... WHAT should i get started with???? Also... heres an even more interesting question.... I dont want to be "on" during the season.... I would consider that kinda underhanded and like cheating... hehe... but my gf thinks that taking anything period, even in offseason is "cheating", and that im kidding myself if i think otherwise???? i know guys, lotsa questions... but... i gotta get some answers quick
thanks!

 

[fhg43]

whew, now thats a question.. if I had unlimited funds what would I do... FHG probably knows more about this kind of thing than me but id probably get on HGH right now at maybe 6iu's a day stacked w/ slin 5 days a week and stay on untill well stay on for the entire season if you can, it certainly wont hurt. If you dont want to stay on all season i would get a few runs of EPO and use that for some key events. I dunno man, thats a tough question.. what would you do FHG? doing a low dose test prop cycle is another option, it also depends on your source.. there is some really funky shit out there that can make you really fast. Id love to hear some other guys thoughts on this question. Again, good question and happy training. rider

I upgraded to a 1 and never used anything either. I travelled around and raced and got pounded by the pros...and my teammate (who knew me very well) asked if I needed 'a little boost'...and thus began my journey to the dark side. Which in reality isn't all that dark; my performance enhancing drug usage has been limited to PHs and some OTC stimulants. So nothing major. However the science of drugs fascinates me. Also it is interesting to find out what guys use and why it works. Often you can learn alot from drugs and how to naturally manipulate your body in a similar fashion. Also pro teams aren't interested in guys who use drugs-they want guys who are good naturally so they can jack'em up!!!

So if I had access to anything I'd use hGH. I'd probably run 2-4iu/day for my base/high miles period. I'd wait and then run it again for 3 months while trying to peak for a major event or during a time period where I was doing a lot of stage races. A fellow racer told me that hGH was awesome for stage races-it helped him recover considerably. I wouldn't run slin with the GH. That would be too many injections (with such a low dose of gH you can get away with no slin). I'd run slin on its own though. It will help you get lean and help with recovery. It is dangerous but if used correctly its fine. You need to take it post training/race. It will allow you to replenish your muscles quickly. And of course I'd stock up on the EPO and run it during a period of important races and maybe at the end of the season. Make sure that post EPO cycle you give yourself about 3-4 weeks to recover as EPO is hard on your RBC producing cells-they appear to go into overdrive when you use EPO and need time to recover. Towards the end of your season you'll be tired and a nice boost would give you an edge over your competition (hopefully not me though!). Actually the end of the season is a good time to do any type of cycle as your body needs some help.

Low doses of test are good during base training and a period of lots of competition. Some forms of test are undetectable and won't put you over the 6:1 ratio (ask Kirk Obee-ouch!!). Oxandrolone (Anavar, Oxadrin) is great as it doesn't add much size but improves strength and may help burn fat! Equipose is nice and purported to have a greater RBC boosting effect than most AAS. It doesn't add much size either. Ox and EQ both have about 5-6 week detection times. Any AAS cycle requires post cycle drugs to recover properly. clomid has a 4 week detection time. Hoewever like I said before unless you are a Pro/1/2 doing an NRC race the chances you'll get tested are about ZERO.

So hope that gives you some info.

FHG

 

[BallzoutSprinter]

ok..... now that u have answered a few questions... you have opened the door to many more.... i do thank you for bearing with my ignorance and helping me sort through the bs and get to the gritty nitty of what i need to know. ill number the questions....

1. Growth - You said you wouldnt stack slin with it.... why? everyone is telling me otherwise... I heard that different companies HGH is stronger than others..... anythoughts? Are there any companies that you would stay away from? You said 2-4 iu's a day... i had serano before... there were 7 vials in the "kit" that was supposed to last a month..... meaning each vial contained 6mg delivering 18iu of somatropin per vial.....if i made each vial last 4 days, that would be 4.5iu's per day, or if i made it last 6 days, that would be 3iu's per day.... right? Also, i took the injections SC in the fat of my stomach in the MORNING... the thought behind taking it in the morning was not to shut down my own natural production at night.... any thoughts?
2. Slin - if i take it post training/race... exactly when should i take it, and how much? and for how long? Is it the same slin that diabetics use? knowing that there is a system of checks and balances in the body, could i make myself a diabetic by doing this?
3. EPO - i have been looking all over and have yet to find anyone on the net who claims to have it.... is that something i could get in Mexico?
4. TEST - what would you recomend that i get on... for low dose??? the transdermal stuff referenced earlier in this thread? i mentioned the transdermal stuff on another site that i have been talking to people on, and they seemed to think that low doses might suppress my own natural production????
5. anavar.... i think that one is easy to get ahold of.... but many companies... many fakes.... is there one that u recommend? and what dosage? for how long??? stacking it with the gh on off season?
6. The other site i mentioned, everyone is saying that winny is what i should take, and forgoe the transdermals that were mentioned... any thoughts on that?
7. assuming whatever stack of the above mentioned you recommend for the offseason... what will i need to get on afterward to recover????? u mentioned clomid?? what is it? lol

SOO SORRY for all the questions... i only ask because i do not know... and i do not wish to harm myself.... i really appreciate you guys caring for my well-being, and helping me figure out what to do, and more importantly, what NOT to do.... i welcome all answers from everyone..... thanks!

Keeping it helmet side UP, and tire side DOWN.....

 

[fhg43]

Also... heres an even more interesting question.... I dont want to be "on" during the season.... I would consider that kinda underhanded and like cheating... hehe... but my gf thinks that taking anything period, even in offseason is "cheating", and that im kidding myself if i think otherwise????

Well I'm sure rider will agree with me (and this isn't passing judgment on anyone), but taking anything at any time is cheating, according to the letter of the law. And everyone cheats. Everyone has taken a substance on the banned list for doping purposes. Caffeine is on the banned list-how many people drink that cup of coffee before a race? Even if the amount is well below the legal limit, the intent is there to use it as a stimulant. Now the banned list is there to protect our health, but in reality it doesn't. It prevents us from taking medication that may alleviate pain or swelling and prevents us from taking hormones our body may need to function normally. This is a whole new thread but you can see that it is easy to justify taking a substance on the banned list. However, don't fool yourself: in season, off season, for therapeutic reasons, whatever-banned list equals cheating. But part of any sport is knowing how to push the limits and not get caught.

Next issue

1. Growth - You said you wouldnt stack slin with it.... why? everyone is telling me otherwise... I heard that different companies HGH is stronger than others..... anythoughts? Are there any companies that you would stay away from? You said 2-4 iu's a day... i had serano before... there were 7 vials in the "kit" that was supposed to last a month..... meaning each vial contained 6mg delivering 18iu of somatropin per vial.....if i made each vial last 4 days, that would be 4.5iu's per day, or if i made it last 6 days, that would be 3iu's per day.... right? Also, i took the injections SC in the fat of my stomach in the MORNING... the thought behind taking it in the morning was not to shut down my own natural production at night.... any thoughts?

Slin and GH are antagonistic so this is why people cycle them together. Cyclists take hGH more for the the recuperative aspects than the growth aspect. BB'ers stack the two in high doses to grow huge-cyclists should avoid this. Unwanted weight gain is your enemy. The GH should be used to repair your body and stay healthy. Plus it will help you lose body fat. The low dose I recommended shouldn't require slin to be cycled with it. If you were taking 8iu/day that would be different. My buddy said take shots in morning and evening.

2. Slin - if i take it post training/race... exactly when should i take it, and how much? and for how long? Is it the same slin that diabetics use? knowing that there is a system of checks and balances in the body, could i make myself a diabetic by doing this?

Slin is tricky and I don't know the details so I'll say ask someone on the anabolic board. But you won't need much and you will need to plan out an appropriate meal as well. IMO you really don't need the slin you could cut this supp out. It could easily backfire on you and is more dangerous than EPO. Unless you are really well versed in the science of slin/nutrient timing don't worry about it.

3. EPO - i have been looking all over and have yet to find anyone on the net who claims to have it.... is that something i could get in Mexico?

Probably, but there are plenty of domestic sources. Do a source check on the anabolic board-be discrete though.

4. TEST - what would you recomend that i get on... for low dose??? the transdermal stuff referenced earlier in this thread? i mentioned the transdermal stuff on another site that i have been talking to people on, and they seemed to think that low doses might suppress my own natural production????

ANY anabolic will suppress your natural test production. If you do the training you need to do, you will greatly stress your body. This will lead to hormonal suppresion. Anabolics will help by replacing the hormones your body is NOT producing. However they also cause your body to greatly reduce hormone production-so your natural levels are really low. Post cycle you need normal levels to comeback fast so you don't have a major drop in form (you'll have fitness but your body will feel like shit while recovering from AAS). You should take recovery drugs like clomid or arimidex to aid recovery. Anyway, the test gel or patch would work well as the therapeutic dose it delivers is plenty of test for a skinny bike racer and will raise your hcrit just like EPO (even higher actually!). You could take it per the directions on the package and have good success. Other tests are injectable. I might ask on the anabolic board. But you could get by IMO with less than 300mg/wk. You want a short acting test also. A long acting ester will stay in your system too long-and you could test + for it if you get tested and didn't give yourself enough time to get clean.

5. anavar.... i think that one is easy to get ahold of.... but many companies... many fakes.... is there one that u recommend? and what dosage? for how long??? stacking it with the gh on off season?

BTG Oxadrin is the legit kind in the US. Get it from a good source as ox is frequently faked. 15-30mg should be fine for you if you are under 200lbs-which you should be as a cyclist! Run it for 6-8wks. With GH would be ideal! Monkeyballs (another tested athlete) was going to do this for his cycle. Search under his name on Elite Fitness and CuttingEdge Muscle. Monkeyballs has some good info for all of us!

6. The other site i mentioned, everyone is saying that winny is what i should take, and forgoe the transdermals that were mentioned... any thoughts on that?

Winny is good, but often faked. One disadvantage is that it can cause joint pain. However sprinters love winny and swear it makes them faster (I'm sure there is some science behind that). Winny would be a good choice too. You could skip the test gel and use it.

7. assuming whatever stack of the above mentioned you recommend for the offseason... what will i need to get on afterward to recover????? u mentioned clomid?? what is it? lol

Clomid is an estrogen blocker. It will help to raise lutenizing hormone which will help your natural test levels recover. Do a search and you can find different ways to take it. Usage depends on the type of drug you use. It will help recovery.

SOO SORRY for all the questions... i only ask because i do not know... and i do not wish to harm myself.... i really appreciate you guys caring for my well-being, and helping me figure out what to do, and more importantly, what NOT to do.... i welcome all answers from everyone..... thanks!

We'll point you in the correct direction. Remember the chances of you getting tested are slim to none. Also keep in mind that more is not better. And train, train, train!

FHG

 

[BallzoutSprinter]

ok, FHG thanks for yet another reply... i do have just a few more questions....

Growth - shots morning and evening? split the daily dose equally? wont the evening dose supress my natural release when my body detects growth levels??? Also, is there a brand of growth that is better, or less likely to be faked?

Do a search on the anabolic board for epo... um... what is the anabolic board??? and how do i search? i know this is totally ignorant to ask, but, i dont know if u mean that there are sources listed on the board, or if i have to go to the board and post that im searching for it, (which would not be discrete).....

This is what someone told me at the anabolics encyclopedia site about the patch/gel:
"The patches come in 3 sizes right now, as far as I understand, 2.5 mg/24 hour; 4mg/24 hour; and 5 mg/24 hour. This is an incredibly low dose considering that doses for test injects are usually 300 mg/week and up. That works out to over 40mg/24 hour. "...


IF the above is true.... how would i get that much from the gel/patch....??..... now to quote you: "Anyway, the test gel or patch would work well as the therapeutic dose it delivers is plenty of test for a skinny bike racer and will raise your hcrit just like EPO (even higher actually!). You could take it per the directions on the package and have good success." ""Winny would be a good choice too. You could skip the test gel and use it."...... so..... will WINNY raise my Hcrit levels as much as the test???

Lastly, if i do take winny, is the oral as good as the IM, and is there something i could take to combat potential joint pain?? as a preventative??

 

[rider]

Yes, I agree w/ FHG.. you are cheating, plain and simple. But if you want to be a pro bike racer you pretty much have to.

FHG is right on w/ the GH, you dont need slin with it at such a low dose, but if done correctly it certainly would help. Ever since Pantani got busted w/ slin I figured it was worth doing some research on it, so heres what I know.
1.If you have never done slin before, start out at 2 IUs per day and increase it by 1 IU every day until you feel comfortable with the dose, usually 1 IU per 20lbs of body weight.
2.Humilin R or Humolog is the kind you want. Humilin R stays in your system for 8 hours and has a danger zone for 4 hours. On the other hand Humolog has a danger zone of 2 hours and only stays in your system for 4 hours.
3.inject 5 days straight and then 2 days off, use insulin needle and inject SC.
4.A cycle should only be run 4 weeks at a time.


About the HGH, the great thing about it is it will not cause a decrease in your natural production, thats how people can stay on it for as long as they want, and when you do come off you are still producing the same as the day you started.

You are correct, the patch is not alot of test. but you dont need alot of test. Shooting massive amounts will make you big, you dont want that you want strength and any amount of extra test will help.

You can get EPO in mex, ive seen it for sale. Its damn near $1000 for a months run though.

As for the winny, it is a 17aa steriod, meaning you can drink it, eat it, shoot it.. whatever, it all passes through the liver and goes to the same place. As for some joint pain.. if you are on GH you should have no problems.

And you definitly need clomid if you do a serious test. cycle, clomid will bring your natural test. production back up much quicker than it could ever recover on its own. Clomid is a womens fertility drug, you know when you hear about those women shitting out 7kids at the same time? more often that not thats because of all the clomid she was on. I would also suggest .5mg of liquidex/day to keep off the water and it will help you not to grow titties! Wouldnt hurt to have nolva on hand either just in case you are very prone to gyno, i wouldnt think it would be a problem on such a low dose of test. but you never know. Hope this helps, ciao
rider

 

[BallzoutSprinter]

OK guys, i think i have decided on the cycle:

Growth, Winny, and Anavar... followed by clomid...now, i need to figure out... what brands, how long and how much... So, correct the following plan at your discretion plz....

Growth - 16 weeks - 2 iu's upon waking, 2 iu's b4 bed....

Anavar (oral) - 8 weeks - 20mg's per day - when should i take it? someone suggested splitting up that dosage to 2x daily

Winny (oral)- 8 weeks - ??? mg's per day - when should i take this? same suggestion for splitting the dose to 2x daily.

Milk Thistle - for liver function... when to start taking... when to take, how much?
Ala - for liver function... when to start taking... when to take, and how much?

then... Clomid... when do i start taking... how much?

and, i am not overly prone to gyno-BUT... i dont want to get anywhere close to looking like that... so... liquidex???? what is it?? what does it do??? THANKS bunches for all your help!

 

[rider]

cycle sounds ok.. you can split the anavar dose into 2x daily, i think its a good idea. once in the morn and another in the evening, take it every 12hrs. run the winny at 25mg ED, split it into 2 doses as well. take as much milk thistle as you want, it dont matter, maybe take double what they reccomend on the bottle. run it all the way through your cycle. take maybe 500mg - 1g/day of ALA in maybe 3-4 different doses, it doesnt matter. take yer last winny and anavar at night and start clomid the next morning
Take 300mg on your 1st day of therapy, then take
100mg/day for 10 days, and then take 50mg/day
for 10 more days, check nuts and continue if needed.

take .5mg liquidex all the way from the first day of winny/anavar to the last day of clomid. its an anti-estrogen and it will keep acne, water bloat and gyno away. cheers
rider

 

[BallzoutSprinter]

ok, im almost there... hehe... last few questions:

1. What is ala? that has to be short for something.... it was recommended to me to use in conjunction with milk thistle.

2. liquidex... is it oral? or inj? is it sold under a different name as well?

3. also, still wondering if winny will raise hcrit/hglobin like test does????

4. would it be a good idea to get my blood checked regularly while on this to see what the differences are??? if so... how often, and what tests specifically should i ask for? is it incriminating to get tested often??? lol... i know im a dork, but, i have to ask cuz i dont know!

5. final question.... u said it sounds "ok"... would u do something differently??? are there any pitfalls, things i should be wary of in doing this cycle?????

THANKS!