Benchpres. Lats v. Chest.

[Longshooter]

you have to understand somthings,george halbert and other lifter's from westside are not saying the pec's do not bench!the pec's are a primary mover.that is a fact.if the pec's are the strongest muscle group by to far,they will take to much of the load and you are more likely to pull a pec.when you use a bench shirt the bottom is not the weak link,the lockout is.so keeping these things in mind,you develope the lats to take more of the burden on the way down to help save pec tears,the shirt reduces the weight on the bottom to a low % thus the reason for light speed day because what you are pushing out of the bottom is in the 45% range and why they say speed is so important and the pec's are not .the weak link then becomes the tri's,which is why they say the tri's are the most important.almost everyone who benches in a good shirt has trouble locking out.but if you take the bench shirt out of this,it is still important to have strong lats for the same reasons and strong tri's but the sticking point changes for most.the bottom now needs the pec's alot more.so train whats week.

 

[cal]

well if youre gonna make comparisions make them make sense...

comparing someone competing without a bench press and comparing someone with a double denim...shirt...is not a comparison.


comparing someone squatting ...below parallel and walking out is not the same as wearing extra long wraps, wearing a ridicoulous suit, squatting to parallel, and ...using a monolift.

can be impressive nonetheless, but its not the same and everyone knows it. its a joke if someone can barely bench press 400 and then with shirt do almost 500.

lets keep riding louies jock...those old timers...were so old fashioned and ...how the hell could they have known what the hell they were doing...hmmmmm
yeah doyle kennady ...well he just didnt know what he was doing...plus it was all genetics...and damn...we all know the CNS always breaks down...and deadlifting is a waste...only ...that all the 4 men that have deadlifted 900+ ...deadlifted...regularly...but lets stick to the pull throughs...and ...such...there is no need to deadlift...its so old fashioned...
read some books...like inside powerlifting by terry todd...

 

[cal]

umm...i have larry pacifico's book...
he does say pecs are very important...for lifting...spatterson...know what youre talking about...but keep riding louie's jock...
who the hell said wsb and periodization was the same as lats vs. chest...get your head out of your ass...

big deal...ooooh...it was off topic...
you've never even heard of the others...?

you sound like a retard...stop quoting shit you read out of louie's shit like ...he is the only man to know what he is talking about...

btw louie and dave tate both have articles saying that benching without a shirt...that lifters should emhasize...pecs...and do many illegal wides and that ...and tris dont need that much emphasis...its in powermag...even says....shirt...do more tris...shirtless do fewer...

this board is a waste of time...

get yourselvs a life fellas...
i know most of you losers can't even get laid...ive read some of your shit...this sounds like its a bit too important to you...not lifting but all your great "buddies" ...get some friends in the real world...

LATER...

 

[k1401]

this will REALLY get interesting now!

 

[spatts]

Wow, you take this way too seriously.

I don't lift with lifting gear, so I can't comment on that.

No one is doubting that you use your chest to bench, it is just not the major muscle used in a PL's bench press, whether you're "riding Louie's jock" or riding Ed Coan's jock.

Were you at the bench comp at the Arnolds this year? None of those guys bench with their chest as the primary force, and not all of them are WSB devotees.

What do you bench? How do you bench? Why don't you teach us a thing or two instead of telling us we're wrong. That's not proactive. I would love to continue this debate if you can debate with a little respect.

...and like Hannibal said, Louie himself does NOT take credit for his techniques. The Russians are responsible for this and Louie gives credit where credit is due.

 

[b fold the truth]

Don't you just love trolls?

Is this SSalexSS?

lol

B True

 

[Hannibal]

Does anyone want to have an intelligent discussion?

cal...not even worth it...nice try though...

 

[Arioch]

Let me add: Rick Weil, all triceps. We ran a meet together, so I know what I am talking about. And I have his book. And he benched reverse grip.

Paul Dicks. Triceps. His secret exercise: The California Press, which he got so much out of and so popularized it is more often called the Paul Dicks press.

Louie Simmons is regard with esteem simply because he is the most succesful coach in powerlifting history, bar none. No one has produced anywhere near the number of champion athletes he has. This is the mark of a good coach. Furthermore, he is still continually trying to learn, both to improve his own performance as well as that of his athletes, this is the mark of a great coach. He will often reference his material, and the basic physiology he describes is rather elementary.

An individual, such as anyone you listed, is not necessarily an authority on training, despite there accomplishments. Many athletes succeed in spite of their training methods and theories, not because of them. By way of example I give you James Henderson, who has a great bench, but little clue as to how to train. I have seen him train on several occasions, and to call his training methods "hollistic" would be generous. He had to ask what someone was doing when they were doing DB rows. Do not get me wrong, he is a nice guy and a good lifter, but I would not listen to his training advice.

By the same token, I would take the training advice of any individual with a great deal of salt, simply because if they are the only one who trains the way they do, odds are their methods are not the reasons for their success.

And perhaps I am a bit old fashioned, but is it possible for you to be a bit more courteous to the ladies? This may not the mark of a great coach, but it is definitely one of the marks of a man.

 

[k1401]

Well said Arioch!

 

[brianmincher]

Cal,

I am a Louie Freak, proud of it. As you put it, "his" methods have put over 100 lbs on my bench in less than 10 months. And I had been consistently weight training for 9 years before I took up westside training, so this is not the case of someone who is so new to training that he would have progressed anyway.

Don't use his methods. Go max out every week and do the same exercises over and over. I don't care. Train like Kaz did or like Coan does, I genuinely hope you get their results. I have tried a lot of different systems over the years and for me, nothing else is even close. I espouse the system because it works. But if you don't want to use it, don't.

Hell, except for my bro's (and sister's) on this board, I don't want anyone to use it. More first place trophy's for me.

Hannibal, I know this was not a worthy debate, but I am 12 days out from a meet and I am a bit keyed up, so I thought What the Hell?

B.