Benchpres. Lats v. Chest.

[b fold the truth]

Actually truth be told I am a weak little bitch...my mind is much stronger than my body at this point...but the body is catching up.

Better to argue with me than with Spatts....you wouldnt like her when she's angry. Besides she is NEVER WRONG!!!

LOL...LOLOLOLOLOL...hahah

You should have heard me explain to Night Fly why I was never wrong.

NF: B True...are you EVER wrong?

B True: Well, as long as I can continue to argue my point...I am not wrong.

Lats rule.

I can't figure it out...but I do know that as my lats get stronger...my bench goes up. As I neglect direct lat training...my bench goes down.

As I try to increase my overhead pressing strength...I try to do more chinning. Is this correct?

B True

 

[spatts]

 

[Hannibal]

QUOTE FROM THE MAD MONK HIMSELF...LOUIE SIMMONS

"The triceps are the most important muscle; do extensions. The lats are next in importance. They are responsible for placing the bar correctly on the chest. Over developed pecs take over the role of stabilizing the bar, thus resulting in more muscle tears. There is a need for some pec strength, but the lats and triceps must be the strongest. If your elbows turn out when you bench, placing most of the stress on the pecs, your lats are being removed from the lift and a minimax, or sticking point, occurs. This is where you miss the lift or a pec injury occurs. "


http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls27.htm

 

[brianmincher]

The triceps are of first importance then lats, then front delts, then side and rear delts for stabilization, then abs so your upper stomach will be big (so as to give the bar someplace to stop) then and only then, you need some pec strength. IN THAT ORDER!!!

What do pecs do? When flexed they bring your hands closer together over your chest (assuming you are on a bench). Proper bench form involves trying to pull your hands farther apart. Anyone remember Louie Simmons talking about trying to tear the bar apart???

When that bar hits your upper abs (note I did not say chest) you drop your head, explode the bar up by flexing the lats/upper back, to properly utilize your shirt's built up tension, then try like a bastard to pull your hands away from each other while driving your body through the bench. Pecs, at best stabilize the bar. At best. If I pinch my shoulder blades together, and put my shoulder joints as close to the bench as possible, and take a competition grip, there is no work for my pecs to do. Simple as that.

Just had to chime in on this discussion.

B.

 

[cal]

you guys are like...jesus freaks...

you just repeat whatever it is that you take as gospel...
in your case..."louie simmons"

if he says...it must be true...and of course ...no one else has done it.

i guess everyone on this board has never heard of past champs that lifted as much as the modern guys with no shirts...and "pyradized" powerlifting...but oh...that is so unscientific...

kaz, rick weil, larr pacifico, ed coan, kirk karwoski, jim williams...paul dicks, mike mcdonald, gene bell.

but chalk it up to genetics...ther heart, training, and dedication had nothing to do with it...louie is just so much more scientific...

 

[Screwball]

Training evolves. As new training techniques are discovered and perfected, totals become larger. The Westside guys are posting some of the largest numbers in history. How can you argue that???
Westside is not the only way but those that use it and benefit from the training are going to "push" it at every opportunity. Just as you would recommend things that work for you. Don't be a hater! If you don't have something positive and constructive to say then keep it to yourself.

 

[b fold the truth]

Can I be a Jesus Freak too? What about a Louie Freak? Didn't the Newsboys sing that song "Jesus Freak".

I got it...the Westside Boys sing..."Louie Freak"...lol.

There is probably a reason why they/we are sold on this...we have done it.

I seem to remember reading a bood I have by Kaz about the bench press and emphasizes the triceps, lats, and bic brach. Do you really think that Garry Frank believes that the lats are not important? I KNOW that he believes that they are very important.

If you want to talk about the past champs...do you include when they used to use bed sheets for elbow wraps on the bench press? What about when they would tie tennis balls behind their knees and in the crooks of their elbows?

I think that Louie and the WSB guys can stand on their own...their training methods are scientifically and productively backed.

B True

 

[Hannibal]

you guys are like...jesus freaks...

you just repeat whatever it is that you take as gospel...
in your case..."louie simmons"

if he says...it must be true...and of course ...no one else has done it.

i guess everyone on this board has never heard of past champs that lifted as much as the modern guys with no shirts...and "pyradized" powerlifting...but oh...that is so unscientific...

kaz, rick weil, larr pacifico, ed coan, kirk karwoski, jim williams...paul dicks, mike mcdonald, gene bell.

but chalk it up to genetics...ther heart, training, and dedication had nothing to do with it...louie is just so much more scientific...

First of all the question of this thread was do you use your lats or your pecs more for the bench. I dont see your answer to the question posed. Instead you decide to attack people for following a system that had proven itself in battle....you know at competitions where all the "what I can bench at the gym" BS is thrown out the window.

Jesus freak??! Thats funny. How can you argue with the success of WSB? For the record KAZ was a genetic freak. There have been University studies done on him to try to figure his genetics out. I give ALL the credit in the world to the past champions that you have dug up to represent people that were strong using periodization. I wonder how much STRONGER they might have been if they had used "Louie's Methods".

And while we are at it...."Louie's method" is not even his. It comes from Soviet literature...and he generally lists his references. You remember the Soviet Olympic Team years ago right? They were the ones in the red lifting suit with the hammer and sickle on them...and they kicked the U.S. Team's ASS!!! The U.S. Team was using periodization. Hmmmmmm?!! "But the Soviets were on steriods"....uhhhh "Hello McFly" if you think the U.S. lifters were clean you are very niave.

Not sure what the point of your post was?

 

[spatts]

You're not comparing apples to apples. WSB vs PERIODIZATION is not the same as BENCH WITH YOUR PECS vs BENCH WITH YOUR SHOULDERS/LATS/TRIS. You are cross comparing training structure with form.

Kaz told American Strength that lats and tris were responsible for his lifts.

Ed Coan's book says show 6 work sets for bench that ephesize lats, tris, and SPECIFIC shoulder work, and only light flys:

A few sets of light flyes and he is ready for triceps....

Larry Pacifico says tricep training is where it's at. This is on both his personal site, AND he is specifically mentioned in Dave Tate's 12 step article (which I pasted above) as being the grandfather of training tris for bench.

You're 0 for 3, so I'm not even going to bother looking up the other guys.

 

[Twitched]

I used to feel like the bar was going to crush me just by unracking.. I couldn't breathe, it was stressful, painful, heavy.

Then I learned to transfer ALL of the weight to my lats, leaving pecs relaxed, and I was able to take a nice deep breath then power through the lift using the method mentioned above.


A+.