Workout duration VS workout frequency and cortisol increase + test decrease

[hereforadvice]

Hi all,

I turn to this forum in hopes of getting some insight from advanced natural lifters, because everybody in the gym and their grandmother has something else to say on the subject.

Here is the deal. I am doing 3 times a week glenn pendley-bill starr type routines which revolve around squats and bench twice a week, light squat once a week, deadlift once a week and military presses once a week

but on fridays it has weighted dips, curls and tricep extentions as assistance

some of these days, especially friday my workout takes one hour and a half or longer

maybe i should rush more so i can stay withing the 45minute max recommendation for avoiding test reduction and cortisol increase

*is this rule bro science or fact?
*would rushing thru the workout to make the time limit not only increase the "stress factor?" which leads to these negative things?
*would splitting up the assistance exercises to the "rest days" be beneficial so that each workout takes max 45 minutes or are does this decrease in rest days negate the "benefit" of limiting the workout time to 45 minutes?
*let's say i do the bench on friday and the weighted dips on saturday for the sake of not working out too long, wouldnt that interfere with recovery?


i'm confused, somebody tell me the truth on this matter

with respect

 

[_cato_]

You'll probably find conflicting stuff on this. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Elite weightlifters often lift for longer than 45 minutes at a time. They also often set PRs when Test levels are below baseline. So it's not clear that it really matters whether you're sessions last longer or not even if your test/cortisol levels are decreasing/increasing.

As you probably know, if you're doing a 5x5 straight sets routine with warmups, it's pretty much impossible to finish that in 45 minutes if you're using any appreciable amount of weight. To do so would mean that you're averaging 15 minutes per exercise, which means 15 minutes to do perhaps 8 total sets of squats.

You could do the dips etc. on Sat instead of the end of Friday, if you wanted. It's probably beneficial if you're finding yourself gassed.

If you're really concerned, you could try dividing your workout up into more days and see if you respond better to it, but again I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[needtogetaas]

sooner or later you just learn to know exactly what you body needs and when. In all honesty your body speaks to you and learning how to listen to it is what you need to do.. You can only learn this by recording everything and going over all of it often. this game is a life not a phase.

 

[StevenM23]

The guy who taught me said when people start noticing how big ur getting ur doing it right haha ,

 

[miked8c]

The guy who taught me said when people start noticing how big ur getting ur doing it right haha ,

This is really what it comes down to. Most people struggle to make any noticeable difference in their physique. If others are noticing changes with in yourself keep doing what you are doing, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[hereforadvice]

The guy who taught me said when people start noticing how big ur getting ur doing it right haha ,

i look at the facts in my workout note book, how much weight i am actually adding to the bar

people's impressions are subjective, they will tell you wow great progress when you wear a sleeveles shirt and think you are melting away when you have no pump and a large shirt

 

[hereforadvice]

Thanks for the replies cato and needto, altho one could argue that elite lifters are on performance enhancing drugs and hormones, which radically change the rules

i think i will just stick to the basic 5x5 lifts on monday, wednesday, friday, do calf, abs, and hamstrins on tuesday and saturday, and add the weighted dips, curls, and skull crushers to the saturday one

i did this the first time yesterday, and not surprisingly was able to take more weight on the dips, so this could actually work ...


thanks again

 

[StevenM23]

Haha that's so true !! I've noticed that , at the beach "wow you've grown" and then at the club or something "buddy you've lost mad weight" when really I've gained 4 pounds or something lol

 

[_cato_]

Thanks for the replies cato and needto, altho one could argue that elite lifters are on performance enhancing drugs and hormones, which radically change the rules

I was thinking of drug free athletes when I wrote my above reply. That's partially why I included the bit about athletes hitting PRs while at sub-baseline levels of testosterone. Obviously if you're taking drugs, you wouldn't be seeing huge fluctuations produced by your endocrine system, because the hormones are being supplied exogenously.

Here's a passage from Practical Programming (Rippetoe, Kilgore, Pendlay):

"It is noteworthy that testosterone levels fall following the cessation of exercise. In fact, resting levels of testosterone can be significantly reduced following longer periods of high intensity or high-volume training. An initial reduction of testosterone levels is an important result of training. Although we know that we benefit from higher circulating levels of this anabolic hormone, it is the depression of its synthesis that marks a significant training stress. Data from much research suggests that a short-term post-workout reduction of testosterone levels by less than 10% represents inadequate stress to force adaptation and that a chronic depression of 30% or more may be associated with overtraining. The goal of programming, in terms of testosterone, is to train hard enough to initially reduce testosterone levels by more than 10% but not more than 30%, and then provide appropriate loading and recovery to re-attain previous baseline levels (that is, to supercompensate)."

 

[lweaver]

A friend of mine told me I look more like a kodiak bear every time he sees me, so I guess I'm doing ok...

As long as you are hitting some PR's I'd say not to worry about how long your lifts take. If I plan on doing any kind of assistance work with squats or deads, it has to be longer than 45 mins.