trouble at t'gym, advice wanted (again!)

[circusgirl]

I've just joined the weightlifting club at the uni I work in, and I'm not sure what to do next. They are not keen on Westside-style training, y'see, they want me to do progressive overload instead. They say Westside methods are "super hardcore, way too advanced" for a relative newbie like me, and I should instead concentrate on progressive overload with one day for squats + accessory work for the legs, 1 for deadlifts plus back work, and one for bench.

The plus points of this club are -
- access to a special gym in the sports centre that is for the exclusive use of the weightlifting club. Which has about 25 members, and oodles of nice equipment, proper bars, power rack, rubberised plates etc.
- intensive one-to-one coaching on form and execution of the lifts, encouragement, matching up with a training partner etc.
- They do know quite a bit, they have won the British Universities Powerlifting championships many times.

Minus points, or point -
- lack of interest in "that Louie Simmons stuff". I have made substantial gains using Westside methods, my body has not become overtrained. I started out with 60kg (132lbs) for an arched back bent leg good morning, 2 months later I'm at 90kg (198lbs). (I'm getting good at mental arithmetic, especially multiplying and dividing by 2.2 by posting to this site ). This is pretty good going, donchathink? My bench is not doing so well, but, it's ok. OTOH, my gains could just be beginner's luck. Thoughts folks?

They think I should definitely not be doing singles and triples, but should do a "standard bodybuilding type split" instead for the moment. They said though, that if I want to go back to Westside methods in January, I could.

They are not used to new members having the faintest idea what they are doing. They liked my deadlift a great deal - and I've improved greatly on this lift WITHOUT doing heavy single DLs every week. Instead I've been doing speed deads and heavy GMs instead.

I agree the form on my squat is a bit off. They think box squats are "dangerous" though and don't think much of using your glutes/hams to squat. Thing is, I KNOW when I recruit the hips with sitting back, wide stance the lift is a MILLION times easier.

They also go for conventinoal benching with the shoulders wide. Does this lead to shoulder injuries?

I think I will go with their split to begin with. Then after 2 months I'll start to incorporate things like GMs into my routine, and some speed work. Hopefully they will be convinced....

How do you guys deal with a situation like this? Don't want to alienate the coach too much. Does the above idea sound like a gradual way of bringing in Westside ideas? I KNOW you guys place nationally and elite, that the Westside methods work for you, but am I really biting off more than I can chew by using these methods from the beginning?

 

[makedah]

When you say you joined the "club," do you mean you joined an organization or you've signed up to be able to use facilities (as in a health club)? Why are you joining? Can you not use the facilities unless you're in the club?

 

[Hannibal]

Why are you joining? Can you not use the facilities unless you're in the club?

That would be my question as well. As far as it being to advanced..I disagree. I WISH I would have started it LONG ago.

 

[JDarty6173]

Same here.. It would be worth a small fortune to me if I would have started westside about 5 years ago when I started working out.. But do you not have a choice as to how u train if you go there? I mean if you pay to lift there you should be free to train however you wish...

 

[circusgirl]

I've joined the actual university weightlifting club, the organisation, who hves a gym at their disposal in addition to the geeral free weights setup. It's a small group of people plus 2 lifting coaches. It would be very difficult to use that gym without an approved training programme.

However, I really need help with my squat form, and I'm sick of training on my own. I'm thinking 7-8 weeks of conventional training won't kill me - the accessory work is the same as before. So I can view it as 7-8 weeks of training up the accessory muscles on their own.

If they don't let me use Westside methods after christmas though, I'm not staying with them...

 

[makedah]

Whatever you choose, good luck, circus!

I consider myself to be an "intermediate" lifter and I am certainly not athletically gifted. I also disagree that WSB is too advanced. I've been doing it for a month and I'm loving it. I can see how a rank beginner would have trouble with it (or any program for that matter), but you're stronger than I am!!!

WSB is very strenuous in terms of GPP - of which I have NIL - so I'm just getting to the point where I have the energy to do cardio on my non-training days. I won't be messing with chains or bands for a while, and I use common sense (as I'm sure you do!) if I feel too woozy to lift safely, I bag it for the day.

I feel that the ME/DE split gets me to really push it but keeps me from "going there" too often. I'm getting stronger more quickly than with anything else I've tried.

I did that bench day, squat day, deadlift day split for a while. I liked it. But I'm liking this better and seeing faster results - in particular because the ME day helped me to get over my fear of pushing heavy weights. With the other split, I would hold myself back. Theoretically, I could go back to the old split now that I know that I'm stronger than I thought I was. But if it ain't broke...

 

[natural-mike]

I'm not shooting down Westside at all, however, it is not the only system.

Does the name Ed Coan mean anything to you?????

If you have coaches give it a shot. Then evaluate your progress based on their system vs. a Westside system. You may even wind up implementing both into your own system....lets say Circus-Side Barbell Club

Mike

 

[circusgirl]

Thanks for all the advice folks!

I've decided to go with them for a while, I REALLY NEED the intensive coaching on my squat for the moment. And yes, I tend to lean forward making it into a semi good morning. I'm learning to drive my head back into the bar though, and they are going to help me develop my form over the next few weeks.

When I start plateauing I'll suggest to them working in some Westside stuff. I haven't been using bands and chains at all as I don't think I am strong enough yet to work to that detail. My bench is fairly regular anyway as I see no point in training the lockout more than once a fortnight when the bottom of the bench is what is shitty. They will let me do the assistance exercises I want, no problem, 3x8 bb style.

But a wider stance suits my squat better .
re circus-side system - more like 3 ring circus!

I would really like the support and camaraderie that comes from being in the club, I can see they all get on well and coach each other too. They are organising the Scottish Open PL champs this weekend, I am going along to watch.

It'll give me inspiration and also I'll get to check out everyone's form, learn what I'm doing wrong, see what a meet is like etc. And inspire me to work harder to lift more. Competitive circusgirl that I am...

My GPP is 6 hours of karate a week!

I will be showering karma on all respondents once I get home as the kde browser doesn't like the send karma request.

 

[JDarty6173]

Well good luck with your training.. Oh and as far as not being stong enough to use bands, well you are.. As is anyone on Westside.. You can always adjust band tension as needed... Peace

 

[Hannibal]

If they don't let me use Westside methods after christmas though, I'm not staying with them...

You say that your form needs work. I think it is a good idea to have a "coach" help you with that. However, you said that the Uni Coaches disagree with using the gluts/hams to squat...I wonder what kind of squat form advice you would get from them???