The Biblical Believers....

[javaguru]

I'm not the only one that finds commonality among political ideologies and religion. Considering one of the functions of religion is primitive cultures is governance it isn't all that surprising.

"One strength of the Communist system ... is that it has some of the characteristics of a religion and inspires the emotions of a religion."
-- Albert Einstein, Out Of My Later Years (1950), quoted from Laird Wilcox, ed., "The Degeneration of Belief"

 

[ceo]

as much as I think "organized religion" has harmed pretty much every society throughout the ages...we get it bro. You're putting way too much energy into living up to your title of "Militant Atheist."

Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy most of your posts and respect your knowledge and views on many issues. I think you're a cool guy, and I got no hate and much love for you. And I'm certainly not trying to argue anyone's point here, but let it go and relax.

In an attempt to validate that I'm not lashing out at you, a little about me:
I haven't been in a church in years. I'd consider myself somewhat spiritual, but not at all religious. I believe in something greater than me but don't assume to come close to having any answers. I just have a hard time believing the perfection of everything in the universe is an accident. I believe there is strong enough evidence to prove that Jesus actually walked the earth, but I don't believe he was anything more than a man (certainly not god). I guess some would call me agnostic...others atheist...others a non-believer...whatever. I just try to be good to people and treat others how I'd like to be treated. Of course I like to stir shit too. I think good debates are healthy as long as they stay "good debates".

Love ya bro.

 

[javaguru]

as much as I think "organized religion" has harmed pretty much every society throughout the ages...we get it bro. You're putting way too much energy into living up to your title of "Militant Atheist."

Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy most of your posts and respect your knowledge and views on many issues. I think you're a cool guy, and I got no hate and much love for you. And I'm certainly not trying to argue anyone's point here, but let it go and relax.

In an attempt to validate that I'm not lashing out at you, a little about me:
I haven't been in a church in years. I'd consider myself somewhat spiritual, but not at all religious. I believe in something greater than me but don't assume to come close to having any answers. I just have a hard time believing the perfection of everything in the universe is an accident. I believe there is strong enough evidence to prove that Jesus actually walked the earth, but I don't believe he was anything more than a man (certainly not god). I guess some would call me agnostic...others atheist...others a non-believer...whatever. I just try to be good to people and treat others how I'd like to be treated. Of course I like to stir shit too. I think good debates are healthy as long as they stay "good debates".

Love ya bro.

I think Dawkins put it well in an interview why it's important to push the envelope when it comes to faith. If religion makes someone feel good then I see nothing wrong with it as long as it remains a personal issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMIE2mgViFo

 

[javaguru]

A primary concern of mine has always been the attempts by religions to insert their beliefs into science. The perfect example is the "Intelligent Design" movement and the attempt to have it taught on par with real science in public schools. The other is the intrusion on the civil rights of others.

The Root of All Evil?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skEJ008jjY8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3pNazSUmu4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp3PJN9wSr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b71_8lX9Ffc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGuclL7rfTM

 

[javaguru]

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999
US physicist (1933 - )

 

[Megalomaniac]

My only question for you is what was the initial start of this whole thing. Before there was nothing and at some point there is us here on EF, what was the initial kick.

Oh and that last quote is just crap, coming from open minded thinkers that quote I would expect a more logical statement.

 

[Lestat]

My only question for you is what was the initial start of this whole thing. Before there was nothing and at some point there is us here on EF, what was the initial kick.

Oh and that last quote is just crap, coming from open minded thinkers that quote I would expect a more logical statement.

No one knows for certain right now. We can see how we can get all living and non living matter out of the simplest element, hydrogen, but how did anything at all come into existence? Not sure.

But here is the thing, you think that saying there is some creator, some omnipotent being, that would explain it right?

BUT, any intelligent and rational person would immediately thing, how did THAT being come into existence, what was the initial kick that put that being into place?

It begs the question, and in turn you get an infinite regression.

We have shown that complex life comes into existence after a VERY long time, millions of years from a single cell to a complicated human being, I would say it takes billions of not trillions of years for a basic element to "appear" whatever that means.

We are still tracing our steps backwards, science has never had all of the answers, and never will! Just not too long ago we used to think the earth was thousands of years old and was the center of the solar system. Just because we didn't know the truth at any given time, didn't make religion or creationism any more or less true.

 

[Megalomaniac]

No one knows for certain right now. We can see how we can get all living and non living matter out of the simplest element, hydrogen, but how did anything at all come into existence? Not sure.

But here is the thing, you think that saying there is some creator, some omnipotent being, that would explain it right?

BUT, any intelligent and rational person would immediately thing, how did THAT being come into existence, what was the initial kick that put that being into place?

It begs the question, and in turn you get an infinite regression.

We have shown that complex life comes into existence after a VERY long time, millions of years from a single cell to a complicated human being, I would say it takes billions of not trillions of years for a basic element to "appear" whatever that means.

We are still tracing our steps backwards, science has never had all of the answers, and never will! Just not too long ago we used to think the earth was thousands of years old and was the center of the solar system. Just because we didn't know the truth at any given time, didn't make religion or creationism any more or less true.

Ya I'm with you on all that but you did nothing but explain what we KNOW right now. What we KNOW right now is really not any closer to an explanation than what they new 2000 years ago so odd are we won't KNOW anything else before you and I die. With that simply logic I am willing to risk a little bit and say there was a creator, probably not what everyone thinks but something nonetheless and run with it.

 

[puddlemonkey]

The Root of All Evil?

Women

 

[Lestat]

Ya I'm with you on all that but you did nothing but explain what we KNOW right now. What we KNOW right now is really not any closer to an explanation than what they new 2000 years ago so odd are we won't KNOW anything else before you and I die. With that simply logic I am willing to risk a little bit and say there was a creator, probably not what everyone thinks but something nonetheless and run with it.

We know a lot more now than 2000 years ago! WAY more actually. We used to always assume that if something looks planned, then it must be.

To cite dawkins examples again, if you were to walk on the beach and saw the small pebbles separated from the large ones, which is common because the force of the wave acts different on large stones than small ones, would you think that some intelligent force deliberately picked up those stones and put them there in that manner?

Well 2000 years ago people would likely have come up with an explanation, a sky god, a wave god, some unseen force that was responsible for it.

But now, we understand that this is a result of the physical properties of the stone and the waves and although it looks like there is incredible order and meticulous thought that went into it, its obvious now that there is not.

There will always be unknowns, scienes is about pursuing them, chasing them down.

2000 years ago we didn't know that you could use nuclear fusion to create new complex elements out of simple ones. We just assumed that they were all created at the same time.

Do you see where I am going with this?

Seems to me like religious people are afraid of just saying "I don't know" and for everything that they don't know they use GOD as the explanation! He lives between the cracks of reason and intelligence, anywhere that there is a gap in knowledge and understanding people fill it in with God, which seems silly and ignorant to me if we are going to be candid here.