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The Biblical Believers....
- Thread starter javaguru
- Start date
redsamurai
Banned
heatherrae said:
I'm sure there were people in the NAZI party that were well meaning and thought that they were only serving to further the quality of life of germans and probably became uncomfortable with what ended up being...........should I judge the Nazi's based on those few people? Same thing with christianity..........I have no problem with alot of christians that I know, but I still judge christianity as a whole to be offensive to my sensibilities and I should not be subjected to laws meant to govern all of society that were influenced by christians. Are you pro women's reproductive rights heather? Are you for women being able to choose whether they can go on birth control or not.......are you for women being able to choose to terminate pregnancies, especially in cases involving their health and rape? If you are......you'd better watch out, because christianity will come for all of those rights........they're doing so as we speak. Right now christian groups are lobbying state governments and the federal government to enact laws that allow an emergency room doctor to tell a woman who's just been raped that she will not get the morning after pill prescribed to her. Now, alot of people will say that the woman can just go somewhere else and eventually get it............reality is that in a lot of locales' in this country a woman might have to drive a few hours to find a clinic that will do so.........this is unacceptable. Also, alot of women are so traumatized by the rape that when told they're not getting the morning after pill they may not seek it elsewhere. I have no more understanding for christianity because of this.......the vatican can give us a fucking 10 commandments of driving.......yet they didn't do shit in cleaning up the child abuse mess and went so far as to critisize american bishops for enacting policies they deemed to "harsh" towards priests who victimize children..........and no word from them either about what to do with a woman who's just been raped and wants the morning after pill. Dogma rules christians........eventually it will take your soul to the point where you can't think for yourself like a human being.......you just refer to scripture.........and then you are properly "owned"....................................not me
redsamurai
Banned
javaguru said:
agreed..........with some of them you really feel like you're talking to a petulant little child that doesn't understand the scientific process. That's what they're doing now.......american and liberty university are funding projects to do all sorts of things like attacking radiometric dating, attacking the fossil record.......now granted I'm no expert in both......but I know the scientific process when I see it, and I can see it's absence as well. So when I look at some of these websites proffessing to have irrefutable evidence that certain dating methods or astronomical data are false and that everything is as the OT say's it is...I'm just amazed at the intellectual crime that's being committed.........none of these people offer their data up to scrutiny.......no one goes before a scientific committe and repeats their findings.........it's like me writing a paper that proffesses I've solved cold fusion........and then telling everyone else that wants to test my theory or replicate my findings to jump off a high bridge.........that's not how things work, but these people don't care about the truth, they care about preserving their infantile dogma that decade by decade is having it's master document, the OT, chipped away at by progress.................blech!
H
heatherrae
Guest
Did I try to convince you of the story or Moses, or the arc, or of anything for that matter? Yet, you are really insulting me. You are just as guilty of intolerance as those crazy right wing religious zealots that you so deeply despise.javaguru said:
As far as you and Red go, you call people names such as "infantile" etc. Why don't you contain your disdain for particular people? I don't consider myself to be ignorant, infantile, etc., and I have a fairly good science background.
The two brightest scientists that I know go to church. One is a research chemist for Notre Dame. The other a professor and UNC. I would bet dollars to donuts that they know just as much and probably more science than you two.
You guys support your arguments by talking about what some bad apples do and generalizing to everyone. What you are doing is no different than saying you hate black people, or that all black people are stupid or ignorant based upon anecdotal evidence of some bad people. Your hateful and derogatory speech is just as ignorant.
I believe in the separation of church and state. I don't shove anything down anyone's throat, and yet you attack all people who believe in God.
redsamurai
Banned
bad apples? I think the appropriate analogy would be on the scale of orchards.......seriously. If it were only a few bad apples our constitution wouldn't be under the attack that it is under....sorry, but that's the truth. Heather, you seem to be a really good person.....so I don't think JG and I are attacking "you" personally.......but the point he and I are making is that this is getting worse by the year.....and it's not just " a few" christians either. You have to stop judging things from within your own sphere of influence. Your family, the people you see at church.......that's what you judge christianity on.......so it's easy to see why someone would be miffed at people attacking christianity when they only judge from within their own personal experiences. Yet month by month, year by year......people within your beleif structure "use you" to exert an influence over everyone's daily affairs that I'm not sure even Christ would support. When it comes down that contraception has become illegal because of your people.........you'll feel it..........and you'll be outraged, but it will too late. So there's really no choice but to attack all of christianity and to do so with full vigor.........because christianity is becoming VERY dangerous........despite the fact that the majority of christians are completely oblivious to what they give over their spiritual selves to. I do think that most christians are fairly moderate........but the extremists are using you right now and are convincing alot of people that they speak for the hundreds of millions of christians in this country........and until moderate christians stand up to them........this country is going to spiral towards a christian theocracy where you can beleive that the upper 5% of the country will continue to do things that the rest of us would be thrown in jail for...........control and domination, that's what this all boils down to.
heatherrae said:
javaguru said:There were some good Nazi's too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe
John Rabe (November 23, 1882 – January 5, 1950) was a German businessman whose Nanjing Safety Zone sheltered some 200,000 Chinese from slaughter during the Nanjing Massacre.
Born in Hamburg, Germany, Rabe pursued a career in business and went to Africa for several years. In 1908 he left for China, and between 1910 and 1938, he worked for the Siemens AG China Corporation in Shenyang, Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai and later Nanjing.
On November 22, 1937, as the Imperial Japanese Army advanced on Nanjing, Rabe, along with other foreign nationals, organized the International Committee and drew up Nanjing Safety Zone to provide Chinese refugees with food and shelter upon the impending Japanese slaughter. He explained his reasons thus: "..there is a question of morality here.. I cannot bring myself for now to betray the trust these people have put in me, and it is touching to see how they believe in me." The zones were located on all of the foreign embassies and at Nanjing University. Rabe also opened up his properties to help 650 more refugees. The following massacre would allegedly kill hundreds of thousands of people, while Rabe and his zone administrators tried frantically to stop the atrocities. Although he tried to appeal to the Japanese by using his Nazi membership credentials, this had little effect.
On February 28, 1938 Rabe left Nanjing, traveling to Shanghai and then back to Germany. He showed films and photographs of Japanese atrocities in lecture presentations in Berlin and wrote to Hitler to use his influence to persuade the Japanese to stop any more inhumane violence. Instead, Rabe was detained and interrogated by the Gestapo and his letter to Hitler never sent. Due to the intervention of Siemens AG, he was released. He was allowed to keep evidence of the massacre, excluding the film, but was not allowed to lecture or write on the subject. Rabe would continue working for Siemens, which posted him briefly to the safety of Afghanistan. Until 1945 Rabe worked in the Berlin headquarters of the company.
After the war, Rabe was denounced for his Nazi Party membership and arrested by the Russians first and then by the British. However, investigations exonerated him of any wrongdoing. He was formally declared "de-Nazified" by the Allies in June 1946 but thereafter lived in poverty. Rabe was partly supported by the monthly food and money parcels sent by the Chinese government for his actions during the Rape of Nanjing.
In 1950, Rabe died of a stroke. In 1997 his tombstone was moved from Berlin to Nanjing where it received a place of honour at the massacre memorial site.
His war-time diaries are published in English as The Good German of Nanking (UK title) or The Good Man of Nanking (US title) (original German title: Der gute Deutsche von Nanking).
I like that movie The Pianist.
javaguru said:
It would be absurd to think that Hitler persecuted the Jews for religious reasons though. Believing that would make one no more credible than a Christian/Muslim/Arab/Jewish/Scientologist etc. fanatic.
javaguru
Banned
HR, these are institutionalized beliefs....
The Southern Baptist Convention..... http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/default.asp
Since its organization in 1845 in Augusta, Georgia, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has grown to over 16 million members who worship in more than 42,000 churches in the United States. Southern Baptists sponsor about 5,000 home missionaries serving the United States, Canada, Guam and the Caribbean, as well as sponsoring more than 5,000 foreign missionaries in 153 nations of the world.
The Scriptures
The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter.
Church and State
We stand for a free church in a free state. Neither one should control the affairs of the other. We support the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, with its "establishment" and "free exercise" clauses.
We do, of course, acknowledge the legitimate interplay of these two spheres. For example, it is appropriate for the state to enact and enforce fire codes for the church nurseries. It is also appropriate for ministers to offer prayer at civic functions. Neither the Constitution nor Baptist tradition would build a wall of separation against such practices as these.
Sexuality
We affirm God's plan for marriage and sexual intimacy – one man, and one woman, for life. Homosexuality is not a "valid alternative lifestyle." The Bible condemns it as sin. It is not, however, unforgivable sin. The same redemption available to all sinners is available to homosexuals. They, too, may become new creations in Christ.
Pick3 is a good borly and it's completely unfair to his lifestyle, especially considering the growing consensus homosexuality is genetic.
Women in Ministry
Women participate equally with men in the priesthood of all believers. Their role is crucial, their wisdom, grace and commitment exemplary. Women are an integral part of our Southern Baptist boards, faculties, mission teams, writer pools, and professional staffs. We affirm and celebrate their Great Commission impact.
While Scripture teaches that a woman's role is not identical to that of men in every respect, and that pastoral leadership is assigned to men, it also teaches that women are equal in value to men.
Evangelism & Missions
It is the duty and privilege of every follower of Christ and every church of the Lord Jesus Christ to endeavor to make disciples of all nations … to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by personal effort.
The Southern Baptist Convention..... http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/default.asp
Since its organization in 1845 in Augusta, Georgia, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has grown to over 16 million members who worship in more than 42,000 churches in the United States. Southern Baptists sponsor about 5,000 home missionaries serving the United States, Canada, Guam and the Caribbean, as well as sponsoring more than 5,000 foreign missionaries in 153 nations of the world.
The Scriptures
The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter.
Church and State
We stand for a free church in a free state. Neither one should control the affairs of the other. We support the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, with its "establishment" and "free exercise" clauses.
We do, of course, acknowledge the legitimate interplay of these two spheres. For example, it is appropriate for the state to enact and enforce fire codes for the church nurseries. It is also appropriate for ministers to offer prayer at civic functions. Neither the Constitution nor Baptist tradition would build a wall of separation against such practices as these.
Sexuality
We affirm God's plan for marriage and sexual intimacy – one man, and one woman, for life. Homosexuality is not a "valid alternative lifestyle." The Bible condemns it as sin. It is not, however, unforgivable sin. The same redemption available to all sinners is available to homosexuals. They, too, may become new creations in Christ.
Pick3 is a good borly and it's completely unfair to his lifestyle, especially considering the growing consensus homosexuality is genetic.
Women in Ministry
Women participate equally with men in the priesthood of all believers. Their role is crucial, their wisdom, grace and commitment exemplary. Women are an integral part of our Southern Baptist boards, faculties, mission teams, writer pools, and professional staffs. We affirm and celebrate their Great Commission impact.
While Scripture teaches that a woman's role is not identical to that of men in every respect, and that pastoral leadership is assigned to men, it also teaches that women are equal in value to men.
Evangelism & Missions
It is the duty and privilege of every follower of Christ and every church of the Lord Jesus Christ to endeavor to make disciples of all nations … to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by personal effort.
javaguru
Banned
"The 2004 survey of Religion and politics in the United States identified the Evangelical percentage of the population at 26.3%; while Catholics are 22% and Mainline Protestants make up 16%.
In the 2007 Statistical Abstract of the United States, the figures for these same groups are 28.6% (Evangelical), 24.5% (Catholics), and 13.9% (Mainline Protestant.) "
Here is a current list of the church members of the "National Association of Evangelicals"
Mission Statement:
"The mission of the National Association of Evangelicals is to extend the kingdom of God through a fellowship of member denominations, churches, organizations, and individuals, demonstrating the unity of the body of Christ by standing for biblical truth, speaking with a representative voice, and serving the evangelical community through united action, cooperative ministry, and strategic planning."
These Protestant church groups were members as of 2007:
Advent Christian General Conference (joined 1986)
Assemblies of God (joined 1943)
Baptist General Conference (joined 1966)
The Brethren Church (joined 1968)
Brethren in Christ Church (joined 1949)
Christian Catholic Church (Evangelical Protestant) (joined 1975)
The Christian and Missionary Alliance (joined 1966)
Christian Church of North America (joined 1953)
Christian Reformed Church in North America (joined 1943-51; 1988)
Christian Union (joined 1954)
Church of God (Cleveland) (joined 1944)
Church of God Mountain Assembly, Inc. (joined 1981)
Church of the Nazarene (joined 1984)
Church of the United Brethren in Christ (joined 1953)
Churches of Christ in Christian Union (joined 1945)
Congregational Holiness Church (joined 1990-92; 1994)
Conservative Baptist Association of America (joined 1990)
Conservative Congregational Christian Conference (joined 1951)
Conservative Lutheran Association (joined 1984)
Elim Fellowship (joined 1947)
Evangelical Church of North America(joined 1969)
Evangelical Congregational Church (joined 1962)
Evangelical Free Church of America (joined 1943)
Evangelical Friends International of North America (joined 1971)
Evangelical Mennonite Church (joined 1944)
Evangelical Methodist Church (joined 1952)
Evangelical Presbyterian Church (joined 1982)
Evangelistic Missionary Fellowship (joined 1982)
Fellowship of Evangelical Bible Churches (joined 1948)
Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas (joined 1978)
Free Methodist Church of North America (joined 1944)
General Association of General Baptists (joined 1988)
Great Commission Churches (joined 2007)
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel (joined 1952)
International Pentecostal Church of Christ (joined 1946)
International Pentecostal Holiness Church (joined 1943)
Mennonite Brethren Churches, USA (joined 1946)
Midwest Congregational Christian Fellowship (joined 1964)
Missionary Church, Inc. (joined 1944)
Open Bible Standard Churches (joined 1943)
Pentecostal Church of God (joined 1954)
Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church, Inc. (joined 1988)
Presbyterian Church in America (joined 1986)
Primitive Methodist Church USA (joined 1946)
Reformed Episcopal Church (joined 1990)
Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America (joined 1946)
Regional Synod of Mid-America (Reformed Church in America) (joined 1989)
The Salvation Army, National Headquarters (joined 1990)
The Wesleyan Church (joined 1948)
Worldwide Church of God (joined 1997)
"Evangelical influence was evident in past movements which are now unpopular, such as prohibition and anti-immigration."
^ a b American Religious Landscape and Political Attitudes: A Baseline for 2004. American Landscape Reports. Ray C. Bliss Institute of Applied Politics (2004). Retrieved on 2007-04-04.
In the 2007 Statistical Abstract of the United States, the figures for these same groups are 28.6% (Evangelical), 24.5% (Catholics), and 13.9% (Mainline Protestant.) "
Here is a current list of the church members of the "National Association of Evangelicals"
Mission Statement:
"The mission of the National Association of Evangelicals is to extend the kingdom of God through a fellowship of member denominations, churches, organizations, and individuals, demonstrating the unity of the body of Christ by standing for biblical truth, speaking with a representative voice, and serving the evangelical community through united action, cooperative ministry, and strategic planning."
These Protestant church groups were members as of 2007:
Advent Christian General Conference (joined 1986)
Assemblies of God (joined 1943)
Baptist General Conference (joined 1966)
The Brethren Church (joined 1968)
Brethren in Christ Church (joined 1949)
Christian Catholic Church (Evangelical Protestant) (joined 1975)
The Christian and Missionary Alliance (joined 1966)
Christian Church of North America (joined 1953)
Christian Reformed Church in North America (joined 1943-51; 1988)
Christian Union (joined 1954)
Church of God (Cleveland) (joined 1944)
Church of God Mountain Assembly, Inc. (joined 1981)
Church of the Nazarene (joined 1984)
Church of the United Brethren in Christ (joined 1953)
Churches of Christ in Christian Union (joined 1945)
Congregational Holiness Church (joined 1990-92; 1994)
Conservative Baptist Association of America (joined 1990)
Conservative Congregational Christian Conference (joined 1951)
Conservative Lutheran Association (joined 1984)
Elim Fellowship (joined 1947)
Evangelical Church of North America(joined 1969)
Evangelical Congregational Church (joined 1962)
Evangelical Free Church of America (joined 1943)
Evangelical Friends International of North America (joined 1971)
Evangelical Mennonite Church (joined 1944)
Evangelical Methodist Church (joined 1952)
Evangelical Presbyterian Church (joined 1982)
Evangelistic Missionary Fellowship (joined 1982)
Fellowship of Evangelical Bible Churches (joined 1948)
Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas (joined 1978)
Free Methodist Church of North America (joined 1944)
General Association of General Baptists (joined 1988)
Great Commission Churches (joined 2007)
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel (joined 1952)
International Pentecostal Church of Christ (joined 1946)
International Pentecostal Holiness Church (joined 1943)
Mennonite Brethren Churches, USA (joined 1946)
Midwest Congregational Christian Fellowship (joined 1964)
Missionary Church, Inc. (joined 1944)
Open Bible Standard Churches (joined 1943)
Pentecostal Church of God (joined 1954)
Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church, Inc. (joined 1988)
Presbyterian Church in America (joined 1986)
Primitive Methodist Church USA (joined 1946)
Reformed Episcopal Church (joined 1990)
Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America (joined 1946)
Regional Synod of Mid-America (Reformed Church in America) (joined 1989)
The Salvation Army, National Headquarters (joined 1990)
The Wesleyan Church (joined 1948)
Worldwide Church of God (joined 1997)
"Evangelical influence was evident in past movements which are now unpopular, such as prohibition and anti-immigration."
^ a b American Religious Landscape and Political Attitudes: A Baseline for 2004. American Landscape Reports. Ray C. Bliss Institute of Applied Politics (2004). Retrieved on 2007-04-04.
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