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I MUST be doing something wrong here - please help?
- Thread starter SteelWeaver
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SteelWeaver
New member
Thanks DBC - don't worry, I will get to PL someday - but like everyone's saying, I should try and focus more. I jsut want to do everything, I guess, but maybe one at a time is better. I like the OL because there's so much involved - there's a great deal of skill and balance and all sorts that is diferent from just trying to get stronger or bigger.
Slinky - good points - could you do ANY pullups when you started 5x5 on them? 5x5 doesn't work on failure in every set, right? But I'll be doing negatives, which is technically past failure.
Corn - I'm not sure it's that simple. I've decreased both volume and intensity a lot this year, and even when eating cleanly and hypercalorically, still got nowhere. Are you saying that the training style one implements has zero influence on progress at all?
btw - nice to see you around here again - it's been a while - how was the show and did we ever get to see your legs?
I think I'm going back to first principles for upper body, something like HST, and will stick with something specific for long enough to see some real progress. Will continue with coach as per usual with OL.
thanks for the forum everyone - I think the simple act of voicing this has helped me get some insight into where I'm going wrong .. will feedback at some point.
Slinky - good points - could you do ANY pullups when you started 5x5 on them? 5x5 doesn't work on failure in every set, right? But I'll be doing negatives, which is technically past failure.
Corn - I'm not sure it's that simple. I've decreased both volume and intensity a lot this year, and even when eating cleanly and hypercalorically, still got nowhere. Are you saying that the training style one implements has zero influence on progress at all?
btw - nice to see you around here again - it's been a while - how was the show and did we ever get to see your legs?
I think I'm going back to first principles for upper body, something like HST, and will stick with something specific for long enough to see some real progress. Will continue with coach as per usual with OL.
thanks for the forum everyone - I think the simple act of voicing this has helped me get some insight into where I'm going wrong .. will feedback at some point.
T
The Shadow
Guest
SteelWeaver said:
Im saying that everything works....but nothing works for long.
Overtraining to me also consists of overtraining the movements as well as overall systemic fatigue
"I'm saying that everything works....but nothing works for long"
That is one of the best quotes I've heard in a while.
Corn is absolutely right about the overtraining concept. It can be either peripheral and/or central.
I have had much success with undulated periodization with my clients, myself and competitors that I've trained. It's pretty simple, keep the light workouts similar, and change the heavy ones every 2 weeks. Doesn't have to be major changes (different rep/set schemes) slight variation in hand grip, dumbbells instead of the bar, etc., etc. You just keep on growing.
Of course knowing when to take a week off (usually about 4 times a year) and keeping the calories coming in is also helpful. Women in particular are so worried about getting fatter, they never put on muscle either and always stay the same. Now, I'm not into the concept of bulking (getting fat to add some muscle), but there is a point where the calories are just not enough to add muscle either.
W6
That is one of the best quotes I've heard in a while.
Corn is absolutely right about the overtraining concept. It can be either peripheral and/or central.
I have had much success with undulated periodization with my clients, myself and competitors that I've trained. It's pretty simple, keep the light workouts similar, and change the heavy ones every 2 weeks. Doesn't have to be major changes (different rep/set schemes) slight variation in hand grip, dumbbells instead of the bar, etc., etc. You just keep on growing.
Of course knowing when to take a week off (usually about 4 times a year) and keeping the calories coming in is also helpful. Women in particular are so worried about getting fatter, they never put on muscle either and always stay the same. Now, I'm not into the concept of bulking (getting fat to add some muscle), but there is a point where the calories are just not enough to add muscle either.
W6
SteelWeaver
New member
In my case it would appear that nothing works, and nothing works for long (like a year in this case) Bah!
I realise that for a large part of last year, I was probably overtraining, and dieting very hard. It's that I haven't improved much, except for squats since I started OL, THIS year that bugs me. And surely one would recognise overtraining - I haven't had any (well, except for not progressing much) of the symptoms: my appetite is as ravenous as ever, I am as motivated if not more motivated to train, I sleep well, I almost never get sick ... I take a week more off every few months.
What bugs me is it SEEMS like I've been doing everything by the book, but nothing happens.
Are you guys saying that one should, say, stop deadlifting or squatting for a while? That THESE sorts or movements can be overtrained? I'm not sure I understand the difference between peripheral and central overtraining.
W6 - do you mean that at every heavy workout the moves change? So you DON'T squat at every heavy workout? You do, say, 3 sets of 5 front squats one week, then 2 weeks later 2 sets of 10 back squats? This sort of idea? There's no pattern to the rep/set changes? Do you go on what feels like a good idea that day? What about pyramiding? Do you stick those in sometimes?
I dunno - it's silly - I've read and tried so much, but still know nothing.
btw W6 - on calories - does one NEED to eat excess to gain? Or can one actually gain (albeit slower) on maintenance? I have dieted briefly twice this year, because I wasn't careful enough about intake after my last comp, and got fatter than can fit into my clothes comfortably. I'm both sick of dieting and sick of not fitting nicely into my clothes.
Oh, one more question - I have bursitis in my hip which is taking its sweet time going away. How much influence would this have on lifts, do you think? It hurts all the time, but I don't notice it when I squat.
I realise that for a large part of last year, I was probably overtraining, and dieting very hard. It's that I haven't improved much, except for squats since I started OL, THIS year that bugs me. And surely one would recognise overtraining - I haven't had any (well, except for not progressing much) of the symptoms: my appetite is as ravenous as ever, I am as motivated if not more motivated to train, I sleep well, I almost never get sick ... I take a week more off every few months.
What bugs me is it SEEMS like I've been doing everything by the book, but nothing happens.
Are you guys saying that one should, say, stop deadlifting or squatting for a while? That THESE sorts or movements can be overtrained? I'm not sure I understand the difference between peripheral and central overtraining.
W6 - do you mean that at every heavy workout the moves change? So you DON'T squat at every heavy workout? You do, say, 3 sets of 5 front squats one week, then 2 weeks later 2 sets of 10 back squats? This sort of idea? There's no pattern to the rep/set changes? Do you go on what feels like a good idea that day? What about pyramiding? Do you stick those in sometimes?
I dunno - it's silly - I've read and tried so much, but still know nothing.
btw W6 - on calories - does one NEED to eat excess to gain? Or can one actually gain (albeit slower) on maintenance? I have dieted briefly twice this year, because I wasn't careful enough about intake after my last comp, and got fatter than can fit into my clothes comfortably. I'm both sick of dieting and sick of not fitting nicely into my clothes.
Oh, one more question - I have bursitis in my hip which is taking its sweet time going away. How much influence would this have on lifts, do you think? It hurts all the time, but I don't notice it when I squat.
Steele--I think that w6 is refering to the stress that training puts on the central nervous system. We do not "feel" this.
I would say yes to not training the squat or dead all the time. By varying the grip, set and rep scheme, this helps us make progress.
As spatts has posted, the crew doesnt just do free squats, they do box squats, deads off a platform, and never one rep maxs. Its like you work all around the lift, but not just the lift itself.
As far as I know yes you would need to be in excess of maintenace calories to put on muscle. The body has to have the material to build it plus enough cals to run the show. I have read the # is 500 cal per day above. But of course I could be totally off base here. Carb cycling would be the way to go for sure. The high carb days when you lift and low carb on the days you don't.
On the hip, your training may have an effect on its healing. Hopefully w6 will post up with correct info. as opposed to my ramblings.
In any case, no sense in getting in getting down on yourself. None of this has been wasted time or effort. Imagine not starting to lift until your 40!!!!!!! Like me.
I would say yes to not training the squat or dead all the time. By varying the grip, set and rep scheme, this helps us make progress.
As spatts has posted, the crew doesnt just do free squats, they do box squats, deads off a platform, and never one rep maxs. Its like you work all around the lift, but not just the lift itself.
As far as I know yes you would need to be in excess of maintenace calories to put on muscle. The body has to have the material to build it plus enough cals to run the show. I have read the # is 500 cal per day above. But of course I could be totally off base here. Carb cycling would be the way to go for sure. The high carb days when you lift and low carb on the days you don't.
On the hip, your training may have an effect on its healing. Hopefully w6 will post up with correct info. as opposed to my ramblings.
In any case, no sense in getting in getting down on yourself. None of this has been wasted time or effort. Imagine not starting to lift until your 40!!!!!!! Like me.
"With all the OL I've been doing lately, I haven't been doing much upper body, which seemed good at first - my lifts started moving quite well, but yesterday I had time to do a full, normal bb chest and tri workout and was disappointed to find my lifts are now dropping"
Steel, you just answered your own question. Training responses are specific to the bodypart and style (PL, OL or BB) of training.
You need to eat enough calories to grow. Sounds like it has either been too much or too little.
You squat at every workout, but the rep/set scheme varies.
One week several sets of 5. Next might be speed sets (10 sets of 2 with 20s breaks), next could be with bands, etc.
W6
Steel, you just answered your own question. Training responses are specific to the bodypart and style (PL, OL or BB) of training.
You need to eat enough calories to grow. Sounds like it has either been too much or too little.
You squat at every workout, but the rep/set scheme varies.
One week several sets of 5. Next might be speed sets (10 sets of 2 with 20s breaks), next could be with bands, etc.
W6
SteelWeaver
New member
Thanks valerie and W6. All of this really helps. I've ben rearraging my priorities, and am raring to go again. Went to doc for a another cortisone shot - so the busitis will hopefully clear up fully soon. He referred me to a sports nutritionist to find out exactly what I need calorie-wise, etc.
Will going onto maintenance cals, with some extra carb bumps here and there, maybe some dips too, on off days. Will do some minimal regular and mod intensity cardio - with sprints here and there - I've finally had to acknowledge that my body is the cardio type, meaning there's not a snowball's chance in hell I could ever have offseason abs like Brickgirl even WITH cardio, never mind without. And my cv system needs some work anyway.
For training, OL will stay as is with coach, 2-3 times a week. This will be plenty leg training. On the other one or two days will do full upper body workout (or split over 2 if 2 days) utilising one compound move and maybe one accessory per part - maybe a bit more for back, with 3 sets or so for compounds, 1 or 2 for accessory), heavy one week, light the next, and starting with high reps (~12 -15) next week, dropping them over the weeks to about 3 or so - then a week off ... etc. I haven't really worked at anything over 8-10 reps for a long time. Keep intensity high, and workouts short. I've been working too often, too long and too hard, and not eating enough (thanks corn
I didn't realise the extra toll the OL was taking.
Any comments? Look reasonable? One question ... is it a fair idea to go with decreasing reps in a biweekly fashion like that, or does randomly doing sets of 5 one week, speed sets another, etc make much difference?
Will going onto maintenance cals, with some extra carb bumps here and there, maybe some dips too, on off days. Will do some minimal regular and mod intensity cardio - with sprints here and there - I've finally had to acknowledge that my body is the cardio type, meaning there's not a snowball's chance in hell I could ever have offseason abs like Brickgirl even WITH cardio, never mind without. And my cv system needs some work anyway.
For training, OL will stay as is with coach, 2-3 times a week. This will be plenty leg training. On the other one or two days will do full upper body workout (or split over 2 if 2 days) utilising one compound move and maybe one accessory per part - maybe a bit more for back, with 3 sets or so for compounds, 1 or 2 for accessory), heavy one week, light the next, and starting with high reps (~12 -15) next week, dropping them over the weeks to about 3 or so - then a week off ... etc. I haven't really worked at anything over 8-10 reps for a long time. Keep intensity high, and workouts short. I've been working too often, too long and too hard, and not eating enough (thanks corn
I didn't realise the extra toll the OL was taking. Any comments? Look reasonable? One question ... is it a fair idea to go with decreasing reps in a biweekly fashion like that, or does randomly doing sets of 5 one week, speed sets another, etc make much difference?
Good for you steele. We all love training so much that we forget what a toll it takes on the body. Sometimes it takes an injury or a plateau to realize that we ain't no superwomen. I know I absolutely refuse to acknowledge my age! Then on occaison I get hit by the reality.
I like the carb cycling. Really helps with strength and prevents cravings. For me it helps keep the diet doable. I've come to be comfortable where I am fatwise. I think Brickgirl would be the first to say that she isn't lean by nature. She has awesome abs and has worked hard to develope them, and who knows what role genetics plays in that. She has often posted that if she didn't workout things would very different.
I don't know how to best set up the rep scheme, but you could do the decreasing reps and also mix in the 5x5 and also high reps on others. But it might be good, after your comp to take some time off before going low rep and higher wts.
I like the carb cycling. Really helps with strength and prevents cravings. For me it helps keep the diet doable. I've come to be comfortable where I am fatwise. I think Brickgirl would be the first to say that she isn't lean by nature. She has awesome abs and has worked hard to develope them, and who knows what role genetics plays in that. She has often posted that if she didn't workout things would very different.
I don't know how to best set up the rep scheme, but you could do the decreasing reps and also mix in the 5x5 and also high reps on others. But it might be good, after your comp to take some time off before going low rep and higher wts.
