Leg Question (quads in particular)

[Mindwraith]

I've read most the articles on Bodybuilding.com by multiple people with many different opinions. I've also heard the opinions of people at the gym and at my job.

Here's the list of different ways to do squats:

Right now I start with squats, I do 4 sets of 20 (or I rarely make it to 20 on the 4th set) using a barbell with 45 lb plates, 90 lbs plus whatever the bar is. Then I add 1 10 lb plate to each side for sets 3 and 4. This leaves me well winded, sweaty and tired, my legs are getting a little stronger but I'd love to see some more mass. Not only do I avoid the back problems I was told that higher reps were required for leg mass since the muscles are slow twitch endurance fiber.

Breather sets: 1 set of 20 with a weight you can only do 10 to 12 with.

High reps low weight: What I'm currently doing.

Low reps heavy weight

The amount of weight is what I'm really concerned about as far as increasing leg mass. I have no idea which one I should be doing or if doing them all is the answer. I've been doing low weight to start in order to save my back and work on form for a while.

As for calves this is another place I need work in, I start with 100 lbs on the sitting calf raise and do 30 reps, then I increase to 110 and do another 30, then to 120 then another 30 reps, then 130 then another 30 with that if I can. I was also told that calves need high reps as well. Is this true? Also what are donkey calf raises. Not sure what donkey is.

Another question I have is on Stiff Legged Deadlifts, where can I find a video on the net to learn how to do these properly? I watch people at the gym then get confused because I see them all do it differently. Also, can SLDL take the place of leg curls?

EDIT: Oh I thought I'd add my leg routine just for FYI

Run mile
Crunches
Squats 4x20 (2 45 lb plates)
Hack Squats (same weight same reps/sets)
Sitting Calf Raise 4x30 100-130 lbs
Standing Calf Raise 4x30 120 lbs
Leg Curls 3x20 80-100 lbs (I never make it past 12 on the 3rd set)
Stretch
Sprint 100% speed 350 yards

 

[zackdarnell]

Right now I start with squats, I do 4 sets of 20 (or I rarely make it to 20 on the 4th set) using a barbell with 45 lb plates, 90 lbs plus whatever the bar is. Then I add 1 10 lb plate to each side for sets 3 and 4. This leaves me well winded, sweaty and tired, my legs are getting a little stronger but I'd love to see some more mass. Not only do I avoid the back problems I was told that higher reps were required for leg mass since the muscles are slow twitch endurance fiber.

Not a very good way, IMO. 4 sets of 20 is not the way to go.

Breather sets: 1 set of 20 with a weight you can only do 10 to 12 with.

My absolute favorite way to train legs. I did these for 8 months and loved them. great for packing on the mass.

Low reps heavy weight

This is also good. However, i wouldnt go too low.

 

[zackdarnell]

EDIT: Oh I thought I'd add my leg routine just for FYI

Run mile
Crunches
Squats 4x20 (2 45 lb plates)
Hack Squats (same weight same reps/sets)
Sitting Calf Raise 4x30 100-130 lbs
Standing Calf Raise 4x30 120 lbs
Leg Curls 3x20 80-100 lbs (I never make it past 12 on the 3rd set)
Stretch
Sprint 100% speed 350 yards

Wow. That is extremely high reps. Drop the mile run. Drop one of the calf raises, and lower the reps to 8-12. Not 30.

And yes, SLDL's can replace curls.

 

[Zyglamail]

I think 20 rep squats are a good way to shock the muscles once in a blue moon. Aside from that I feel low reps (ie 5 or so) with large rest periods will give the best strength gains. Shorten rest period for more mass gains. Hypertrophy requires stess as well as fatigue. CNS stimulation requires pure stress. Large rest between sets to maximally stimulate CNS, shorten rest to build mass, this can all be done in one workout as well.

I personally think leg curls and extensions are a waste of time but thats just my opinion. Hack squats are too hard on the knees.

 

[Fatty4You]

I am a fan of the higer rep scheme. But even for me, 20 reps is a hell of a lot of reps. When i do high reps i try to stay 8 - 15 [more towards 15]. I packed on the most leg mass during a few months of 15 rep sets.

But it is also good to change up the routine every now and then.

I disagree with Zyg; i love leg extensions and leg curls.

Also, donkey calve raises are stiff legged and bent of at the waist. The weight is then placed either on the lower back with a pad or on a belt around the waist. Try to image you are bending over and someone is doing you from behind - thats the form.

-Fatty

 

[needsize]

I think 20 rep squats are a good way to shock the muscles once in a blue moon. Aside from that I feel low reps (ie 5 or so) with large rest periods will give the best strength gains. Shorten rest period for more mass gains. Hypertrophy requires stess as well as fatigue. CNS stimulation requires pure stress. Large rest between sets to maximally stimulate CNS, shorten rest to build mass, this can all be done in one workout as well.

I personally think leg curls and extensions are a waste of time but thats just my opinion. Hack squats are too hard on the knees.

i couldnt agree more, and BTW, it's great to see you around the training boad lately Zyg. I rarely ever squat over 5 reps, and you can see from my avatar that I've built some good quads that way. After a few sets of 5 rep squats, I'll generally do maybe 2 sets of 8-10 reps on hack squat or leg press, and I'm out. That has worked great for me

 

[Mindwraith]

Thanks a ton guys. I normally do legs 2 days a week, I'll try and do both breather sets and the low rep high weight and see how that works. What about the 350 yard sprint at the end?

Also I've never done stiff legged dead lifts but I'm about to find out how today. Might have to bug a trainer to show me.

 

[zackdarnell]

Thanks a ton guys. I normally do legs 2 days a week, I'll try and do both breather sets and the low rep high weight and see how that works.

I can tell you how it will work- you will overtrain. 20-rep squats are extremely tough. You wont even want to consider doing legs again that week if you are doing them hard enough. Once a week is plenty.

 

[coolcolj]

Try the Smolov squat program - if you can handle the mental and pain requirements of squatting high volumes 3-4 times a week

I'ved added 3/4 inch on my legs in 2.5 weeks and some 6-8 lbs in bodyweight and I'm natural!!! Legs went from 26.75 to 27.5 inches. Most probbaly gained at least 25lbs on my Squat max too.
Legs are too big now for my needs

high set counts, but fairly low reps. 6x6, 7x5, 8x4, 10x3 etc

No doubt about it - for the fastest mass and strength, high volume and frequency, while not going to failure (otherwise you won't recover) will pack on mass faster than you think.

 

[Mindwraith]

I can tell you how it will work- you will overtrain. 20-rep squats are extremely tough. You wont even want to consider doing legs again that week if you are doing them hard enough. Once a week is plenty.

Ok so if I do the breather set of 20 I should only do that once a week? What about the other way?

Thanks guys, lots of info here.