Gotta have carbs to burn fat

[wilson6]

I was thinking about this today as I was writing a lecture.

The issue of low carb diets vs carb rotation has been batted around here for some time. I think as most of you are finding out; carb rotation is working much better than chronic low carb diets for fat loss and workout productivity.

The reason for this is that fat burning and the energy derived from it (ATP) will slow when you are running low on carbs, thus less fat is used and you become sluggish during your workouts because ATP production is decreased.

Bottom line, to keep the fat burning process running and have energy to have good workouts to preserve muscle mass, then carb rotation is the only way to go.

Thus the phrase, fat burns in the flame of carbohydrate.

W6

 

[Gladiola]

Do you have some sources for this?

I've been trying to find some scientific justification for carb rotation but am coming up with nothing but info from body building web sites... which state that it's the way to go, but not WHY. I'd love to know the WHY behind the carb rotation.

Is carb rotation the same as cyclic ketogenic diet? I thought ketosis was only reached with very low carbs... and the carb rotation I've seen posted here didn't seem low enough to be ketosis.

I've also read from some extremely educated exercise physiologists (I have a friend who was just published in the journal of NSCA - National Strength & Conditioning Assoc.) that cardio FTITM isn't necessarily best for avoiding catabolism.

My grasp of this issue is, however, much too tenuous at this point to chime in either way - but I'm tryin' to get there.

 

[Gladiola]

First of all, you're asking W6 for sources? LMAO...he IS a source. I'm sure he'll provide you with a list though. This isn't a new fangled thang...just basic biology.

I don't know about you, but I never take anything I read on the net to be 100% truth. Besides, I always like to know the WHY behind anything. I'm not saying I don't think it works, but I'd like to know that there's more justification behind it than a data sample that is statistically insignificant.

Second, I will volunteer to be a walking source. Carb rotating saved my ass....literally.

What's it called.... "Sampling Error"??
Just because it's worked for you, doesn't prove it works. I don't know what would be a statistifically significant sampling pool, but I do think it would be well into the triple digits of subjects, and other factors would have to be held constant to sufficiently prove cause and effect rather than mere correlation.

Try doing a search for carb rotating, if you can't find something, I'll be shocked.

I've already done a few. As I said, I've mostly found anctedotal info that it works, but no scientific justification for the REASON it works. I use google.com for searches, and if you actually type "Carb Rotating" you find technical info having to do with CARBURETOR - not diet advice.

 

[Gladiola]

I just re-read my post. Man I sound pissy, but I don't mean to!

I think I'm getting a cold

Anyway, all this info is so much to sift through, it gets very tiring. Especially when there are so many thing on which there is no consensus.
I'm always appreciative of insight & info!

-Gladi

 

[muskles]

W6,


What do you think of Dr. DiPasquale's anabolic diet? He says once you deplete the carbs you begin to get your energy from the higher fat intake, and from fat stores in your body. My experience with this diet left me feeling quite sluggish for a couple of weeks, but then i adjusted and had more energy.

 

[FitFossil]

The carb rotating saved my ass too! And my brain, because I really need carbs to think. Restrictive complicated diets never worked for me, meaning whatever weight I lost I couldn't sustain and always felt deprived and ended up blowing it and gaining more weight back.

The carb rotation is just something I do naturally. Every few days I just feel like a little something extra, so that's my "carb up". Because I'm making better food choices all around, I never feel like I'm on a diet or deprived, so I can't even remember the last time I had a binge. (A few YEARS I think...which is really saying something since it used to happen every 2 days or so.)

Thanks W6 for saying "gotta have carbs to burn fat". So many people are bad-mouthing carbs these days Everyone's different I guess, but I needs 'em - some of my best friends are carbs!

 

[rez]

agree w all of the above.

carb rotating also helps w curbing cravings or cheat days. I used to have a cheat day once a week..now its more like once in 6.

w6.. a carb question realting to post resistance training;
when cutting should u take a high sugar recovery drink followed by a high protein low gi carb meal?
i tries this today for the first time (did legs and figured was a good day to experiment..)
my recovery drink stats:
per 100g;
20 cals
p=0.4
cho=8.8
sugar=7.2
f=0

it includes h20, cho polymer, l-leucine, l-valine, creatine monohydrate, l-glutamine, glucosamine HCL, l-isoleucine, l-histidine, l-proline.

was this a bad choice?

 

[Daeo]

Not to mention that ATP is needed to convert unactive T4 in your liver into active T3...

 

[rez]

Not to mention that ATP is needed to convert unactive T4 in your liver into active T3...

was that meant to answer my question? (not sarcastic)

 

[wilson6]

"I just re-read my post. Man I sound pissy, but I don't mean to! "

Chicks..........


Rez,

8.8% CHO drink isn't bad right after a heavy leg workout, assuming you're not consuming more than 300 ml, the BCAAs are fine, but based on the recent lit., I'd use a drink that gives you all the essential AAs. As I said in other threads, Ms Wilson uses Met-Rx post workout and does fine while cutting. Met-Rx is as good as any. Probably my choice, although some might say less carbs, but you do need to replenish muscle glycogen and the best time is right after exercise.

Muskles,

you will adapt, but compare a chronic low carb diet to one that is rotating. Tell me which one works better overall.

Pissy (aka Glad),

You won't find lit on this. Probably take the scientific/nutritional community 10+ years to do a study. If you understand Krebs, fatty acid oxidation, the need for pyruvate to maintain Krebs cycle intermediates and how when they are depleted, fat oxidation slows and ketones increase and ATP production decreases, then it will all make sense. If you don't have a handle on these pathways, then it won't.

Ditto for Daeo. Chronic dieting decreases 5' deiodinase activity.

W6

 

[Gladiola]

You won't find lit on this. Probably take the scientific/nutritional community 10+ years to do a study.

If the scientific community has not done a study, how does anyone know that it's true?
(Don't you agree that one or 2, or even 12 ppl don't prove a theory??)

If you understand Krebs, fatty acid oxidation, the need for pyruvate to maintain Krebs cycle intermediates and how when they are depleted, fat oxidation slows and ketones increase and ATP production decreases, then it will all make sense.

No, I don't fully understand these things, but have read about them and am currently ATTEMPTING to. If understanding these theories will be sufficient proof of the effectiveness of carb cycling, then you've answered my question as to where I can go for scientific justification. Which is all I was asking for.

 

[Gladiola]

Spatts,

I'd appreciate that!

 

[KBgrl]

And that, is the gosple truth - Can I get an Amen!?!

AMEN daaaaddy!

 

[SteelWeaver]

Aaaaaa----MEN!

 

[KBgrl]

Aaaaaa----MEN!

Aaaaaa-- woMEN!

 

[MS]

Gladiola, I also can't imagine anyone ever funding a double blind placebo controlled cross over study of a large number of bodybuilders to address the question of whether a carb inclusive diet is better than a ketogenic diet for fat loss with maximal muscle retention. To me it sounds like this is what you're asking for as "proof". You will find no proof. You will find plenty of people over on the diet board who religiously believe in ketogenic diets for fat loss. The fact is, if calories are below maintenance you will lose weight no matter what diet you use. Obese couch potatoes LOVE Atkin's becasue they can eat all the greasy slimey food they desire, and they are not worried about retaining or gaining muscle. Their appetite dies a natural death as well. They just like to see the scales go down, though as Daeo pointed out, their basal metabolism will also drop from lack of T3 conversion, and heaven help them if they ever go back to eating carbs again. You will find people who adore CKD diets. These are hard core to optimize and follow, and only allow you two intense training days per week. I have known virtually no females who didn't suffer bad rebound fat gain when coming off a CKD, and I don't know of any top level BB competitors who use this diet. The proof is in the pudding as my grandma would say. You will find folks who will drag out references to Inuit Eskimos, epileptic children etc.... as "proof" that ketogenic diets aren't bad for ya. Whatever. I'm a body BUILDER. Bodies are built on carbs. Even the Inuit Eskimos had a very high protein intake most of the year, a lot of which their body no doubt converted to carbs to build muscle necessary for their survival. It seems an expensive way to get carbs from my perspective (unless you live in the furthest reaches of Alaska). I haven't met any epileptic kids on keto diets who were bodybuilders either (but then again I haven't met any epileptic kids on keto diets).

I'm just guessing here that Wilson6 was taking a stab at the proliferation of very low carb diets and their faithful converted ranks. Surely you don't need an article in a prominent nutrition journal for this to make some sense for bodybuilders???

 

[wilson6]

"If the scientific community has not done a study, how does anyone know that it's true? "

Because it works.

Don't take my word for it, try it. Go ketogenic for 12 weeks, and have your body comp measured. Then carb rotate for 12 weeks and check it again. Keep everything else constant.

As MS said, no one cares about bodybuilders. Besides, when it comes to this area (diet and ergogenic drugs) just look at how it is approached by the scientific community.

It took them until 1996 to prove them injecting testosterone built muscle. My guess is that they will come around with the diet info sometime in 2010.

Besides, just because there is a study or two on something doesn't mean anything. Whether it works or not in real life is what is important.

This board is one of the few places you'll ever find real life information on diet, training, supplements and ergogenic drugs.

W6

 

[Gladiola]

OK, I was primarily confused b/c I had the impression that this was something there wasn't a *consensus* on. There are certainly plenty of gray areas... for example, is it appropriate to train chest and back together? Is it right to stretch first & not warm-up?

I had the impression that carb cycling was one of these gray things... i.e. it works wonders for some, but is not necessarily the perfect/best/wonderful way to eat. If it were, why hasn't everyone been doing it all along? Perfect Example... My sister, VooDoo Lady, similar body type to me, obviously same genetics, achieved that body with 60% protein STEADY (no cycling).

Now that I see via this thread that there does seem to be a consensus about the efficacy of cycling, I am much more convinced.

Lobo - if I considered AS, no question I would come here & trust everyone's experience! I also wouldn't have options for sources since there aren't scientific studies. BUT.. there's lots of research on Ketosis, why wouldn't there be research on Carb cycling????

MS, Good point that ppl don't care about Body Builders! Thanks for the info.

OK, now how about those ratios????
Spatts Posted once the following "1) Cycle the carbs, 3 days low and 2 days high. 50g is low, 150g is high.

2) Shoot for at least 1800 cals. On your low carb days, make up the caloric difference with extra protein. "
"You would have to alter the times by when you train, and cycle the carbs 3 days low (.5g/kg body weight) and 2 days high (2.0g/kg body weight). "

Weighing 135 LBS, this equals Low carb: 31 Gram, High: 122 gram. I had been aiming for ratios of 40%P, 30C, 30F. Apparently that would be my breakdown on a high carb day. So to still reach close to 2,000 cal on a low carb day, I'd have nearly 300 gram Protein & 60% protein? Yikes!

Is this appropriate for both bulking & cutting?
I won't go keto - I don't need to deal with BKH (Bitchy Ketogenic Haze) - I'm evil enough on my own!
Someone just tell me what to eat! & I'll shut up!

 

[Gladiola]

my trainer assures me that if he did the same his intestines would be on strike and he'd have no friends.

You all will probably be able to appreciate & see the humor in this! My boyfriend said I WOKE HIM UP the other night cuz a protein fart was so stinky! he he
That's at between 150 - 200 Gram. That is a SIGNIFICANT increase for me from when I got on Elite in early November & Spatts smacked some sense into me.

Sooo... if I were to rotate and still stay within 1,600 - 2,000 cal per day, maybe I could do 40% pro some days, 50% other days?????

I'm using fitday.com for the percentages. I know how many calories & grams of protein foods have, but I don't know how that converts to PERCENT of cals from protein. Is there a formula for that?

How long should I stick with 40%P-30C-30F before trying to rotate????? I'm thinking the variety of rotation might be good for me mentally though (easier to stick with).

 

[Gladiola]

I think you're making this too hard.

umm, what am I doing different than anyone else?????? - I simply want to know the ideal total calories, and the ideal break down of P F C for me to eat. I also need to know how to track it (what sense is it to know I should eat X Grams of carbs if I don't subsequently keep track of the carbs I put in my mouth????)

Just tell me what to eat then! & I don't eat steak, so that's going to have to be replaced with something on your cutting diet. & I will not eat the same thing every day... so I'm going to have to track how many cals & protein grams anyway....

Cooking is enough of a pain, it would definitely make things harder than they need to be to cook chicken & fish & steak EVERY day.. no way. I cook a bunch of chicken to have for a few days, a bunch of fish for a few days, etc.

Besides, I just don't WANT to eat the same thing everyday & it's more healthy to get your nutrients from a variety of sources (yes, so long as they are all clean healthy foods).

So what am I doing that's making this hard?

 

[Gladiola]

Are you pissy again?

eh, mostly just frustrated. Patience is not my strong suit.

So you are telling me that base carb need I posted here is appropriate? I wasn't sure of that.

I didn't decide on a protein amount! I have been eating 150 - 200 Gram, but I've also been eating close to that many grams carbs... so I'm going to end up with MUCH less calories on a low carb day if I don't up that protein!

If I leave fats & proteins alone... I risk going too LOW on total calories on a low carb day... isn't that a bad thing too? (I do want to build). And what if I want to do both cardio AND strength training on a low-carb day... I gotta have more than 1,800 cal!

I thought you didn't eat turkey? Or do you have friends who hunt them for you? Those birds are smart! Not so easy as killing a rabbit, unfortunately.

Anyway, if you do want to keep helping me sift through this all, I appreciate it! (I feel bad taking over the thread!)

 

[BrickGirl]

I eat the same damn thing everyday and I love it. I was a vegaterian before I started "cutting", now I eat steak and chicken daily and I crave it now, like a vampire wanting blood, I can't wait to get my steak and chicken

 

[new@gettinbig]

You are going to have to realize you are eating to FUEL your body..not for pure enjoyment. You don't have to eat the exact same things, but I eat a lot of the same things pretty much every day. Does not bother me...I love meat...never gets boring. The whole dieting thing is not that difficult. We make it more difficult than it really is....spatts ratios may not work for you..that is based on her body...activity..metabolism etc..its what worked for HER...you can use some of the ideas and try to create something that will work for YOUR body...it is all very individual.

 

[Gladiola]

Test it for 2 weeks. If you don't lose, then tweak th ratios a bit.

I'm not trying to lose. I'm trying to gain muscle, maybe lose fat, but if I don't (fat stays the same) I don't care for now.
So then how do I know if what I'm doing is working? If I'm getting stronger?

Now I'm even more confused.

You are going to have to realize you are eating to FUEL your body..not for pure enjoyment. You don't have to eat the exact same things, but I eat a lot of the same things pretty much every day.

I accepted that eating is not about pleasure a long time ago. With my raging sweet tooth if I let myself eat what I wanted, I wouldn't be able to fit in the door of the gym! I just like to be able to have variety in my carbs. Most of my protein sources are the same things daily though, and that doesn't bother me.

 

[KBgrl]

oatmeal is your friend

 

[Gladiola]

How are ya for confused now!?!??!!?

Wanting to go home, watch Friends, eat pizza & doughnuts & drink beer, that's how I am!!!


OK, I will dry 3 days hi, 2 days low carb & see how it goes. If I'm not exactly around 30 Grams carbs on low day & 122 grams hi days, I'm not gonna stress over it too much.

 

[Gladiola]

I usually go for Miller Lite... my fav light beer. Unless I'm totally thinking F** IT & going for regular! Then I like Yuengling (local to Pennsylvania where I went to college).

Anyway, I know that I can't gain muscle & lose fat at the same time up to a point and I don't know where my BF is right now. Which is why I say if BF is steady, I don't care - I'm looking to bulk.

I could SWEAR you said you did the carb rotation WHILE bulking & it helped you not gain too much fat. Isn't that what you meant by:

WORK ON MAINTAINING THAT WHILE YOU PUT ON MASS. I learned this one that HARD way, which brings us back to how carb cycling saved my ass.

I really feel like I'm losin' my mind here!

 

[Gladiola]

Ya with me?

NOOOOW I'm with ya! whoo hoo! yea!

OK, so how does that convert to PERCENTAGE of calories? Or is percent of total calories not worth tracking?

I suppose knowing my bodyfat would REALLY help in determining how much I should be eating, huh? It can't be too high though... which is why I consider myself to be bulking.

 

[Gladiola]

While we have this dialogue going... any idea where there is now a STAR under my green karma dot????? I'm lost as to what it means, cuz I didn't go platinum.

Aanyway, I know I need to get the BF done but I can't seem to get together with a trainer to do a caliper reading for me. I want someone I know & trust to do it for me... we all know how many clueless trainers there are out there!

I'm gonna try the cycle thing & see how it goes. That'll probably mean being at only 130 Gram protein on hi carb days... I was hoping to have more like 150 - 200 daily, but I suppose 1 Gram per LB of weight is still sufficient.

I really need to get my bodyfat done so I have a bench mark. I do see a little more vascularity & more size of muscle than a few weeks ago, so I'm pretty sure I'm movin' in the right direction (not totally sure though!)

 

[missyd143]

on low carb days is it ok to have oatmeal in the mornning? and do u add up the veg carbs like spinach? what about pre workout a lil like 15 grams of carbs from oatmeal and then after workout i have simple carbs n whey..?

 

[TheProject]

While we have this dialogue going... any idea where there is now a STAR under my green karma dot????? I'm lost as to what it means, cuz I didn't go platinum.

The more posts you have, the more stars you get. You go platinum, you get fancy stars, like spats.

 

[Pink Space Biscuit]

on low carb days is it ok to have oatmeal in the mornning? and do u add up the veg carbs like spinach? what about pre workout a lil like 15 grams of carbs from oatmeal and then after workout i have simple carbs n whey..?

Even on low carb day oatmeal is one of the best carbs out there. You still need some! And personally I never count green veggies.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Gladi - if you need some more numbers, check out this thread - was very helpful to me.

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85801

 

[rez]

Pre and Post workout meals ARE exceptions to the rule. I train at 6:30AM, so I almost always have oats before, and that's 27g of CHO right there. Then post workout sugars bring the grand total to about 50, and I'm through for the day (on a low day/cutting) with the exception of green veggies.

Spatts, have you ever posted your lowcarb day diet? Ide really like to see it if you have a copy. Have u recently changed your postw/o meal?

 

[KBgrl]

I have a headache

 

[NY Muscle]

Ive tried every diet in the world, I lost 75lbs back in 1994, and that was low fat low cal, lotsa cardio aka the muscle and fat loss diet....not until i started low carbing did i start losing fat and just fat and in the quickest time...IMO nothing beats low carbs...CKD's are great but TKD(targeted ketogenic diet) cant be beat....this is where you drink soem carbs before and/or after a workout, so you constantly have the energy/fuel to workout and can be back in ketosis a few hours after your workout.....this keeps the pump during the workout that usually goes away on a CKD.....and this allows for continual fat loss and the fat loss doesnt slow down liek on most low carb or any diet for that matter......also about every 10 days or so i would eat high carbs low fat and high protein... i have th worst genetics and low carb diets without a doubt are superior to the standard low fat moderat to high carbs and high protein diets...normal carb rotation IMO doesnt let you hit ketosis so the fat loss is slower, and with the carbs pre and post workout on a TKD your workouts are fine if not superior then when on carb cycling because your body soaks up the carbs so fast since you have been depriving yoruself of carbs, that the pump in the gym is amazing.

 

[Gladiola]

i have th worst genetics

If that is you in the avatar, then you certainly have made a fabulous achievement in spite of those genetics!

 

[NY Muscle]

If that is you in the avatar, then you certainly have made a fabulous achievement in spite of those genetics!

thanks

yes thats me i had lost 75lbs back in 1994 and been bodybuilding ever since.

im 28 i started working out when i was maybe 14 or so, was huge in HS big football player, i even entered weight lifting contests we had and used to beat the seniors when i was in 10th grade...i was thick but solid....then after HS got lazy and out of shape for a yr or so then decided to cut the crap and get serious.

 

[wilson6]

I think NY's plan might be optimal, if you can survive on low carbs without:

1) cheating

2) losing cognitive function

3) losing your sanity

However,

the bottom line is that you still need carbs for optimal workouts, even it it is just before and after. What's nice about muscle glycogen is that it stays in the muscle even on a low carb diet (unlike liver glycogen) provided you don't use it for high intensity muscle contraction. Thus, increasing muscle glycogen and blood glucose just prior to a workout, then replenishing just after when the uptake of glucose into the muscle to replenish glycogen is greatest (combined effect of insulin and prior muscle contraction) would probably work best for fat loss overall.

But, carb rotation is the next best thing if you can't live in a mild state of ketosis for long periods.

W6

 

[wilson6]

Having said that, there will likely be effects of gender and what ergogenic drugs are being used as well.

And.........before anyone starts asking, " how many carbs before and after" it is going to depend on your individual biochemistry, gender, AAS, T3, GH or anything else, and workout intensity and program.

So, you need to figure it out for yourselves, but perhaps NY can put it into a g of CHO per kg lean mass formula for starters.

W6

 

[wilson6]

In fact, rather than ratios, ie. 2 days of low CHO and 3 high or whatever because this doesn't always flow well with lifting, just increase carbs on heavy lifting days and keep the carbs low at all other times.

W6

 

[wilson6]

But, my only reservation to chronic low carbs other than before and after workouts is reduced protein synthesis. Carbs = insulin = uptake of essential AAs into muscle. So, unless one is "cutting", chronic low carb intake might limit muscle mass gains particularly if you're not juicing.

W6

 

[NY Muscle]

i think the low to ZERO carbs is the best way to burn fat and the quickest...i do feel juice is needed though, even though in theory this diet is supposed to preserve muscle, the lack of fullness and water retention you make you look and feel small...so as they say TEST IS BEST for a guy that is....and on ANY diet for that matter...i ONLY juice when i diet...i EAT when i want to gain size.

on a side note, a friend of mine, a national level competitor, quite famous, has been in many ads for universal nutrition...he takes 2gms of test when DIETING and maybe 1gm when gaining...too many people do it assbackwards and wonder why they lose size when they diet.

anyway back to the diet... i used to take maybe 50gms of dextrose and or maltodextrin pre and post workout....soemtimes i had that pre bottled stuff from worldwide nutrtion...has 35gms of whey isolate, and i think 40-50gms of pure maltodextrin. other tricks i used to do (not anymore) was take in mayb 75-100gms of glucose post w/o with some FAST acting insulin (humalog)..very dangerous thing to do but if done right (most do it wrong) u will be fine and be back in ketosis within 1hr after post carb drink.
also i would do small doses of insulin after my one big carb day every 10 days...about 2-3ius every hour until i was recording ketones on my ketostix... the 2 problems with insulin and low carbs is....you can get fucked up bad...like anytime you use insulin..but moreso on low carbs....you can fix this very easy...if u feel a crash just drink a tons of carbs, within 20 seconds you feel fine..but guess what...you just fucked up the diet and wont hit ketosis for another day or 2....so its very very tricky.
dont be stupid and try to fight off the crash with no carbs, its not fun to see white snow as we call it in ur eyes and feel like ur in a dream and ready to pass out.

 

[KBgrl]

My headache went away -- This thread is getting gooood!


NY-- I've low carbed before a nothing freakin happens to me. I usually just stay the same. WTF! hehe

 

[KBgrl]

o another question NYdork -- does it matter if you lift at night and then take carbs in at night? For some reason I can't get with it when I lift in the AM or in the afternoon. When I lift when it's dark out I'm an animal. I can really get my lift on around 8pm or so!! I usually do my cardio in the AM though.

Ok answer my questions biatch. **kiss** KBaby

 

[NY Muscle]

My headache went away -- This thread is getting gooood!


NY-- I've low carbed before a nothing freakin happens to me. I usually just stay the same. WTF! hehe

few reasons and ive seen it one too many times with my female clients and or friends

#1 you arent eating enough fat ...females are i think born with the fear of fat...they think 20gms of fat is a lot lol

#2 you are eating too many carbs...

#3 you are consuming too many cals( that would be on any diet) but you should know how many you eat a day......and on this diet you should cycle your calls between 10-12 times yoru bodyweight in calls so if you were 125 thats 1250-1500cals, soem women do better in the lower rang of 9-10 cals per lbs of boydweight, guys can use the higher range.

#4 along the lines of too little fat and too many carbs...u never hit ketosis and you wont know unless you use ketostix..once you get to be like me you know when you are in ketosis by the taste in ur mouth the way you feel and the smell of your urine lol

he was how i did my diet

ok so lets say 230lbs i would eat 300+ gms or protein a day,ZERO carbs or under 30 it usually comes out to with all the hidden carbs in foods, 150gms sometimes much much hight of fat
a day.

 

[NY Muscle]

o another question NYdork -- does it matter if you lift at night and then take carbs in at night? For some reason I can't get with it when I lift in the AM or in the afternoon. When I lift when it's dark out I'm an animal. I can really get my lift on around 8pm or so!! I usually do my cardio in the AM though.

Ok answer my questions biatch. **kiss** KBaby

yeah thats fine you should be ok, unless u go right to bed after you drink the carbs, i would keep the carbs low post workout or dont even bother post w/o i used to do pre w/o carbs and post w/o or soemtimes just one and not the other. i think youd be better with pre w/o carbs.

so now ur kissing me? lol hmmm

 

[KBgrl]

NY-- HUH? you think I would better off doing carb for pre workout but not after If i train at night? or reverse?


and yea im kissin you.... I have a feeling one day we're gonna get naughty together, yes it's true...i may finally let you be my luv slave.It always happens like that. I end up with the very people that push my buttons the wrooooong way. You may just get lucky slut

thx for the info-

 

[NY Muscle]

NY-- HUH? you think I would better off doing carb for pre workout but not after If i train at night? or reverse?


and yea im kissin you.... I have a feeling one day we're gonna get naughty together, yes it's true...i may finally let you be my luv slave.It always happens like that. I end up with the very people that push my buttons the wrooooong way. You may just get lucky slut

thx for the info-

well yeah cause ur activity level at night after the gym im sure is limited and u will be sleeping with the carbs *in your system* and at rest you use mainly fat as fuel ( i think) and you wont be burning off the rest of the carbs that you had post workout.
i mean if ur having 5 hour long sex sessions (my specialty) then you will have no problem burning them off.

and ur right i usually end up fucking the girls i fight with most, lots of sexual tension built up, sometimes its a grudge fuck ( one of the best types of fucks known to man)
...but being that you dotn send me pics...ill just have to stare at your avatar of monica brant...

 

[NY Muscle]

so yes take in pre workout carbs only unless its like 15-20gms post workout...everyones different you have to use trial and error.

 

[KBgrl]

thx NY! I may try this sometime. so i guess u are good for something after all!


And OMG..for last time. u HAVE seen my pics!! remember you were one of the reasons i had to take them down. U kept harrassing me and stuff. ooooo the memories. Ya know, and you don't even remember them...thats what hurts! o well.... you're just going to have to imagine what i look like now

and sure.. we'll set up a "gruge fuck" sometime.

Ok stop chattin now cause the big bad mods are gonna come kick us off this thread. You always get me into trouble and off topic! NO MORE -- PM me with the rest of ur bullshit..

 

[NY Muscle]

thx NY! I may try this sometime. so i guess u are good for something after all!


And OMG..for last time. u HAVE seen my pics!! remember you were one of the reasons i had to take them down. U kept harrassing me and stuff. ooooo the memories. Ya know, and you don't even remember them...thats what hurts! o well.... your just going to have to imagine what i look like now

hahaa ur such a LIAR i dont even remember what u look lik u ass lol

i think cornholio was stakling you not me.. lol

 

[MS]

Wow, what a strange thread???

Gladiola, you are really making this way too complicated on yourself. As Wilson6 said, just eat more carbs on training days, and less on non-training days. If the fat gain is more than you can cope with, then cut back all around (eg cut back by 20% on training AND non training days). Just make sure you're eating enough for mass gain. There are no magic numbers.

 

[NY Muscle]

Wow, what a strange thread???

NY MUSCLE, you have no concept of even the most basic of genetics versus gettin off your lazy ass while taking AAS and doing some exercise. There is nothing wrong with your genetics, and most of the females on this board would be well advised that your method of dieting only works well for women that are, on the whole, jacked. Obviously you like them that way because they're more likely to put up a fight which turns you on.....

ms i hope ur joking? getting off my "lazy"ass? have u ever lost 75lbs then in the yrs to follow put on 60lbs of muscle? 40lbs of which was JUICE FREE.and dont tell ME about MY genetics I was fat for most MY life, was even diagnosed with real low thyroids levels, but wasnt helped until a yr or 2 ago, now im on 150mcg of synthroid a day. hmmm let seee nothing wrong with MY genetics? ....well i eat as much as some of these big bitches on here and if i ate more id get fat TRUST ME dont ASSUME u think u know.. i know my body better than a hooker knows her pimp, my genetics suck. as far as the diet i described above, thats what i have done in the past,(and W6 even commented maybe i should describe MY diet and I did) if u dont like it , dont do it, matter of fact just have coke and a smile and shut the fuck up and my method of dieting works for anyone expect the lazy cry babies that bitch and moan sayin " wahhhh i cant do low carbs i hate the feeling after 3 days* oh shut up you whining bitches, if u want to look good stop bitching and do something about it.....and also these women i am speaking to are on steroids (most of whom have no business doing that shit) this is the board full of girls who juice or is this the basket weaving board??

next time u want to assume im lazy which personally i just pissed my draws laughing, come to ny, ill show u how "lazy" i am in the gym..

and i love how you make that comment about *strong girls turning me on* its kinda like me criticising female *juicehead groupies* sure i like to label them but fuck without them us *juiceheads* would be single.....as would YOU

ps... im the type of guy who yells at and puts down the people who are LAZY and take juice (like 75% of elite fitness) so dont even TRY to play that bitch ass game with me.

 

[Hannibal]

and sure.. we'll set up a "gruge fuck" sometime.

Spreadin it around mighty thin arent ya baby girl.....I am heartbroken

 

[KBgrl]

NYM -- down boy...

Hannibal.... "spreading it thin" ----I don't remember "spreading it" to begin with. NYM is my buddy -- and I use that term lightly, lol. We have a luv/hate relationship that keeps us going through the hard times.. as for you -- You know you're my boy too -- everyone just relax now -- there is enough KB to go around..

 

[NY Muscle]

NYM -- down boy...

Hannibal.... "spreading it thin" ----I don't remember "spreading it" to begin with. NYM is my buddy -- and I use that term lightly, lol. We have a luv/hate relationship that keeps us going through the hard times.. as for you -- You know you're my boy too -- everyone just relax now -- there is enough KB to go around..

who you kidding? i ant ur buddy u know i hate ur fucking guts

lol JK

yeah ther sure is enuff of KB to go around lol

 

[Hannibal]

 

[spatts]

Goin up...