Soreness dilemma.

[Arioch]

Alex, where do you get the "theory of unlimited progress from?"

I have been lifting for thirty years, and if, as you state, the more you train the more you can add weight, I should total somewhere over 4000 lbs. in my next meet.

Are you aware of the fact that many OL'ers, myself included, will often train with sub-maximal weights with the intent of improving skill instead of stressing the cns through maximal effort? And there is a big difference between stressing the CNS (or the PSNS or SSNS for that matter) via repetitive effort and all out intensity (in this case, intensity is referred to as % of 1rm).

Also, while certain OL'ers may train up to 20 times a week, with the Bulgarian team having the highest total tonnage per week, these are not only elite athletes, but athletes who have been selected to specifically tolerate their training program, making this a closed circle argument.

 

[SSAlexSS]

ive heard it all now. ATROPHY?!?

how can YOU tell that your nervous system is so taxed. stimulating neural gains wont incapacitate someone. ive never woken up and thought, "damn...i cant seem to get my nervous system working." i think you are mistaking intensity in one all out set for the "nervous system being taxed". its intense yes, the nervous system gets a beating, the muscles get a beating. atrophy? that wont set in for quite some time. i highly doubt even with this "minor use" that you infer that muscles get from a highly neural workout, that muscles will atrophy.

dont settle for the dogmatic belief that you need more volume to grow. weight training is the stimulus for growth. workload may increase as someone becomes more conditioned, and thats where you periodize your training, emphasize other facets, (balance, strength, proprioception etc) so you continue to make gains in your ultimate goal: hypertrophy.

Well I am tired of arguing. If your nervous system wasnt taxed than you could lift the same amount of weight each day. Do you really think that you can recover yourself from a bruatl workout?

Dorian Yates (very dedicated bber) COULDNT recover very quickly after his 1 set to failure. Why? His muscles were recovered, his mind wasnt. With his drugs and his dosages his muscles were probab;ly ready to go the next hour. ok not the next, but couple down the line. Ok few days.////


Unfortunatelly Hoebbin reflex was takin in effect and his muscles were capable of less and less work!

 

[SSAlexSS]

That is fine in theory, but the body has a finite ability to continually add weight at every workout. Attempting to add weight to the bar, 2 or more times a week, is going to result in your body plateauing very quickly, that is unless you are not training with maximum intensity.
In say 8 weeks, training with only natural supplements, can you add 40lbs to your bench, and 80lbs or so to both your deads and squats. Before I decided to try anabolics, I was able to do that using just creatine and protein, evertime I aimed for it. Can you, using your "2x per week/adding weight every time" philosophy, add more weight that that in that span of time. If you say you can SSAlexSS, then you are either a beginner (they progress very quickly), or are full of crap.

Where did I say that you can add weight infinite? All I said is TRY to do that.

Another note. Your body cannot feel the difference betweeen 100 and 101 pound weight. By adding 1 pound you can progress without feeling the difference! Until you
hit your final plateau. Hey it is cool to lift 500 pounds. You can add 5 pounds each owrkout and dont feel a difference. 50 weeks per year = 250 pounds on your squat/dead/of whatever move allows you to move 500 pounds...

By training 2x a week correctly you could add 500 pounds in a year for squat/dead (you would plateau TOTALLY and basicly all your power training is now finished. Time to start working on your weak points.)

BTW, I am not a newbie. I have been training correctly for more than 2 month.

 

[SSAlexSS]

That is fine in theory, but the body has a finite ability to continually add weight at every workout. Attempting to add weight to the bar, 2 or more times a week, is going to result in your body plateauing very quickly, that is unless you are not training with maximum intensity.
In say 8 weeks, training with only natural supplements, can you add 40lbs to your bench, and 80lbs or so to both your deads and squats. Before I decided to try anabolics, I was able to do that using just creatine and protein, evertime I aimed for it. Can you, using your "2x per week/adding weight every time" philosophy, add more weight that that in that span of time. If you say you can SSAlexSS, then you are either a beginner (they progress very quickly), or are full of crap.

needsize I understand you trying to learn. me too!

I have added 60 pounds to my squat in matter of weeks.
(I could squat 275 for 1.. SOmteimes I couldnt even do that)
Now I squatted 335 for 3 reps. Not super yes. I blow. But when you squat is stuck for bunch of month... even measly 60 pounds kick !!!!

FEW reps to my chin up strenth.
And I am deadlifting 100+ more pounds now.

Again dont laugfh at my measly poundages, howeever it is all about progress!

 

[Arioch]

Alex, why does one set stress your nervous system more than three?

How can your body not feel the difference between a 100 and a 101 pound weight? It can feel difference much smaller than this. Where do you get this? And I would like a specific reference.

You are right, at two months of training you are not a newbie, you are a virgin.

 

[needsize]

SSAlexSS, first thing I want ot say is that I'm not bashing you, that's not why I come to this board. But you said that you've been training correctly for 2 months, most people haven't figured out exactly how their body responds to training or what makes it grow the best, after 2 years of training. I have been training for over 10, and all but the last 6 months completely natural, and I have defintitely learned a lot about my body in that time. And one thing that I do know, is that with the amount of intensity I put into each workout, there is no way I could train each muscle 2x per week for any period of more than a week or 2, without completely overtraining. And at the level that my strength is at, there is absolutely no need to try to add weight more than 1x per week, and I'm risking the health of what I've built by trying to do so.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Alex, why does one set stress your nervous system more than three?

How can your body not feel the difference between a 100 and a 101 pound weight? It can feel difference much smaller than this. Where do you get this? And I would like a specific reference.

You are right, at two months of training you are not a newbie, you are a virgin.

Take a piece of paper. Put a feather on it. Will you feel a difference? No! You do not perceive very tiny difference.

Your eyes cant for example see the difference between x color 1 and x color 2. The difference is to small to notice. You also dont seem much imprivment in your body while others may see a huge difference if they havent seen you in a while. Reason is that you see yourself in mirror in each day and obviously you dont gain 1 pound of muscle each day, you gain in small amounts and you get used to that.

I cant give a specific reference sine this is what I have heard from some reliable sources. I think it was Stuart Mcrobert or some good HIT writer.

About two month thing. I never claim to be an expert, 6the more I learn the more I realise that there is more to learn.

 

[SSAlexSS]

SSAlexSS, first thing I want ot say is that I'm not bashing you, that's not why I come to this board. But you said that you've been training correctly for 2 months, most people haven't figured out exactly how their body responds to training or what makes it grow the best, after 2 years of training. I have been training for over 10, and all but the last 6 months completely natural, and I have defintitely learned a lot about my body in that time. And one thing that I do know, is that with the amount of intensity I put into each workout, there is no way I could train each muscle 2x per week for any period of more than a week or 2, without completely overtraining. And at the level that my strength is at, there is absolutely no need to try to add weight more than 1x per week, and I'm risking the health of what I've built by trying to do so.

Well that is where our training differs. My training is not intense in Blood and Guts fashion. I love blood and guts type of training, I got craving for it ... ANd I fantasize myself beating Dorian Yates in intenisty (try heavy 20 rep squats).

But right now I am trying to pile as much plates as possible. Its not pretty not to failure, and it SEEMS to be good.

Ofcourse if you train dorian yates like intensity, you cant workout 2x a week and make good gains...

Well I can say that i am not training too bad for gains, howeever ofcourse I am not 100% correct (none are)...
'
Well this is why I visit bb boards. TO LEARN! and sometimes to post stupid stuff and get flamed. HAHAHAHHAHA

 

[Arioch]

Quote:


Take a piece of paper. Put a feather on it. Will you feel a difference? No! You do not perceive very tiny difference.

Perhaps not conciously, but various other senses, including the SSNS will, as I must balance the extra weight, however minute.

Your eyes cant for example see the difference between x color 1 and x color 2. The difference is to small to notice. You also dont seem much imprivment in your body while others may see a huge difference if they havent seen you in a while. Reason is that you see yourself in mirror in each day and obviously you dont gain 1 pound of muscle each day, you gain in small amounts and you get used to that.

I do not go by the mirror. If my total improves, then I have obviously gotten stronger. Please provide some solid references instead of non-applicable anologies.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Alex, why does one set stress your nervous system more than three?

How can your body not feel the difference between a 100 and a 101 pound weight? It can feel difference much smaller than this. Where do you get this? And I would like a specific reference.

You are right, at two months of training you are not a newbie, you are a virgin.

When you goto 1 set to failure you are really depleting your muscle and your CNS. A motor would brake if he tried that. These 2 forced reps can make your muscle look like Afghanistan after US is done there!!!! hahahahhaha

When you do three non failure reps you are always leaving gas in the tank. Ofcourse you have to make up foir that and do few more sets.