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Soreness dilemma.

  • Thread starter Thread starter TerraNoble
  • Start date Start date
Alex Wrote: "That article doesnt say that 1 is better then three. Those people either went to failure or weren't conditioned enough to tolerate 3 sets. That article doesnt break 3 better than 1 fact."

WRONG AGAIN, ALEX.

Here is an excerpt from the article you obviouisly didn´t read very well addressing your "problem" with this theory.

p.s. Where are you from originally?


The final study by the Pollock group (Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. Supplement 30(5): S115, 1998) addresses the training experience issue. As you'll recall, some have suggested that experienced trainers might benefit from higher volume. In other words, after you've been training for a while, you need increased volume to continue progressing - more is better. According to this study, those people should think anew.

The researchers recruited 40 adults who had been performing one set to muscular fatigue, using nine exercises, for a minimum of one year; average training time was six years. The participants were randomly assigned to either a one-set or three-set group; both groups did 8-12 reps to failure three days per week for 13 weeks.

Both groups significantly increased their one-rep maximum strength and endurance. There was no significant difference in the gains made by the two groups in the leg extension, leg curl, bench press, overhead press and arm curl. The researchers concluded: "These data indicate that 1 set of [resistance training] is equally as beneficial as 3 sets in experienced resistance trained adults."

Another research group, K.L. Ostrowski and colleagues, tested "the effect of weight training volume on hormonal output and muscular size and function" in experienced trainers. (Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. 11(3): 148-154, 1997) Thirty-five males, with one to four years weight-training experience, were assigned to one of three training groups: one-set, two-sets, or four sets. All participants did what I would call a periodized routine; they changed the rep range every few weeks. They did free-weight exercises four times a week for ten weeks using 12 reps maximum (week 1-4), 7 reps max (week 5-7) and 9 reps (week 8-10). All sets were performed to muscular fatigue with three minutes rest between sets. The only difference between the three programs was the number of sets.

As in the Pollock group studies, no significant differences in results were found. The authors concluded: "...A low volume program ... [one set of each exercise] ... results in increases in muscle size and function similar to programs with two to four times as much volume."

Significantly, regarding hormone output, they concluded: "High volume [four sets of each exercise] may result in a shift in the testosterone/cortisol (anabolic/catabolic) ratio in some individuals, suggesting the possibility of overtraining." In other words, high-volume training not only doesn't produce better results, it may also lead to overtraining.
 
aurelius said:
Alex Wrote: "That article doesnt say that 1 is better then three. Those people either went to failure or weren't conditioned enough to tolerate 3 sets. That article doesnt break 3 better than 1 fact."

WRONG AGAIN, ALEX.

Here is an excerpt from the article you obviouisly didn´t read very well addressing your "problem" with this theory.

p.s. Where are you from originally?


The final study by the Pollock group (Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. Supplement 30(5): S115, 1998) addresses the training experience issue. As you'll recall, some have suggested that experienced trainers might benefit from higher volume. In other words, after you've been training for a while, you need increased volume to continue progressing - more is better. According to this study, those people should think anew.

The researchers recruited 40 adults who had been performing one set to muscular fatigue, using nine exercises, for a minimum of one year; average training time was six years. The participants were randomly assigned to either a one-set or three-set group; both groups did 8-12 reps to failure three days per week for 13 weeks.

Both groups significantly increased their one-rep maximum strength and endurance. There was no significant difference in the gains made by the two groups in the leg extension, leg curl, bench press, overhead press and arm curl. The researchers concluded: "These data indicate that 1 set of [resistance training] is equally as beneficial as 3 sets in experienced resistance trained adults."

Another research group, K.L. Ostrowski and colleagues, tested "the effect of weight training volume on hormonal output and muscular size and function" in experienced trainers. (Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. 11(3): 148-154, 1997) Thirty-five males, with one to four years weight-training experience, were assigned to one of three training groups: one-set, two-sets, or four sets. All participants did what I would call a periodized routine; they changed the rep range every few weeks. They did free-weight exercises four times a week for ten weeks using 12 reps maximum (week 1-4), 7 reps max (week 5-7) and 9 reps (week 8-10). All sets were performed to muscular fatigue with three minutes rest between sets. The only difference between the three programs was the number of sets.

As in the Pollock group studies, no significant differences in results were found. The authors concluded: "...A low volume program ... [one set of each exercise] ... results in increases in muscle size and function similar to programs with two to four times as much volume."

Significantly, regarding hormone output, they concluded: "High volume [four sets of each exercise] may result in a shift in the testosterone/cortisol (anabolic/catabolic) ratio in some individuals, suggesting the possibility of overtraining." In other words, high-volume training not only doesn't produce better results, it may also lead to overtraining.

If all those guys did was curl, leg extension, leg curl, bench, and overhead press, IT WAS A JOKE!! Where are squats? Where are deads??? I dont seem them

That report is probably aimed at "average joe" who needs someone to make him feel better for only doing 1 set.

Also the guys were performing a set to "muscular fatigue" ? What is that, curling 10 pound pink dumbells?

Furthermore 3 MINUTES BETWEEN SETS? Are you kidding? Oh my god can you picture this " I feel wasted from this set of arm curls" . I need to get a short break.


Well ofcourse when you take so much time IN BETWEEN sets, more sets would suck because it would take much more time.

For a good experiment, YOU MUST have 45s MAX break between sets unless you are doing a very strenuos power training (something that was nt been done that).


In short, that study was BAD BEYONG BELEIF!


1 set has never been the require amount. You need to hammer the nail. Yeh I wish I could get an A in harvard from 1 hour of study for each test... Ofcourse that doesnt work. You need HOURS to prepare for tests.

Also periodization is bull. It is a myth. And it was used in these "studies" which doesnt raise its credibility.

Get a study that used Bench/DEAD/SQUAT combo.... Not those pink dumbells for set of ten reps.

WE ARE BODYBUILDERS! Not tone-builders!
 
You failed your rhetoric class, didn´t you.

Classic ad hominem attacks like "That report is probably aimed at "average joe" who needs someone to make him feel better for only doing 1 set."

Try attacking the data.

They gave you the rep ranges so it couldn´t have been those "pink " dumbells you always mention.

You didn´t say where you were from. So?
 
SSAlexSS said:



For a good experiment, YOU MUST have 45s MAX break between sets unless you are doing a very strenuos power training (something that was nt been done that).
actually its a little over a minute to replenish ATP stores up above 90%


In short, that study was BAD BEYONG BELEIF!
no it wasnt, the results, as stated, speak for themselves. hypertrophy was gained at the same rate with the 1 set group as the 3 set group. as an inside hint, hypertrophy means muscle growth. (thats what bodybuilding is about)


1 set has never been the require amount.
DOGMA You need to hammer the nail. Yeh I wish I could get an A in harvard from 1 hour of study for each test... Ofcourse that doesnt work. You need HOURS to prepare for tests. learning and physical adaptation is like apples and oranges

Also periodization is bull. It is a myth. And it was used in these "studies" which doesnt raise its credibility.
is it? have any studies?

Get a study that used Bench/DEAD/SQUAT combo.... Not those pink dumbells for set of ten reps.
get a grant and do your own, until then you have to take what studies are out there, and there are many, and go with it. special combos of exercises wont change the results, as belial says...muscles are dumb and will respond to a stimulus, not an exercise.

WE ARE BODYBUILDERS! Not tone-builders!

speak for yourself. a true bodybuilder finds the most efficient way to get to the finish line. if you want to run the long way, by all means go ahead, but there may not be enough chicken at the party when you get there. :fro: :D :rolleyes:
 
Intriguing reply. You´re very sharp, Big Nate.

Keep playing your cards right and you just might make my buddy list.:arty:

all the best
 
aurelius said:
Intriguing reply. You´re very sharp, Big Nate.

Keep playing your cards right and you just might make my buddy list.:arty:

all the best

Something to pinder on 3vs1.

1 all out set ot failure really depletes yoiur nervous system, and thus you have to train infrequent. Infrequent gains in strength.muscle


3 non to failure sets = More total reps (more growth factor released) aand LESS recovery time since your nervous system is not taxed so much. This you could recover faster and train MORE OFTEN.

no tyime to go into details. mid term tommorow!
 
SSAlexSS said:


Something to pinder on 3vs1.

1 all out set ot failure really depletes yoiur nervous system, and thus you have to train infrequent. Infrequent gains in strength.muscle


3 non to failure sets = More total reps (more growth factor released) aand LESS recovery time since your nervous system is not taxed so much. This you could recover faster and train MORE OFTEN.

no tyime to go into details. mid term tommorow!

do you make this up as you go along?

ive never heard such nonsense. its like you make up bits of information just to make your side look right.

the nervous system adapts way quicker than the muscular system. and what does this 1 set to failure tax so completely? neurotransmitters?

taxing the nervous system is a GOOD THING since it will inherently allow more fiber recruitment, better coordination and as a result, increased strength. in the quest for muscular gains its always a balance game of nervous system/muscular system. one becomes efficient the other catches up. one makes progress which allows you to increase in the other. hence the word "plateau".
 
bignate73 said:


do you make this up as you go along?

ive never heard such nonsense. its like you make up bits of information just to make your side look right.

the nervous system adapts way quicker than the muscular system. and what does this 1 set to failure tax so completely? neurotransmitters?

taxing the nervous system is a GOOD THING since it will inherently allow more fiber recruitment, better coordination and as a result, increased strength. in the quest for muscular gains its always a balance game of nervous system/muscular system. one becomes efficient the other catches up. one makes progress which allows you to increase in the other. hence the word "plateau".

No I read lots of physiology material. It is fact that 3 sets non failure tax nervous system less. Less taxating means less time in between workouts =MORE GROWTH!

WHat is the point in taxcing your nervous system so much that muscle just sits there idle doing nothing and maybe even starting to atrophy?
 
SSAlexSS said:


No I read lots of physiology material. It is fact that 3 sets non failure tax nervous system less. Less taxating means less time in between workouts =MORE GROWTH!

WHat is the point in taxcing your nervous system so much that muscle just sits there idle doing nothing and maybe even starting to atrophy?

ive heard it all now. ATROPHY?!?

how can YOU tell that your nervous system is so taxed. stimulating neural gains wont incapacitate someone. ive never woken up and thought, "damn...i cant seem to get my nervous system working." i think you are mistaking intensity in one all out set for the "nervous system being taxed". its intense yes, the nervous system gets a beating, the muscles get a beating. atrophy? that wont set in for quite some time. i highly doubt even with this "minor use" that you infer that muscles get from a highly neural workout, that muscles will atrophy.

dont settle for the dogmatic belief that you need more volume to grow. weight training is the stimulus for growth. workload may increase as someone becomes more conditioned, and thats where you periodize your training, emphasize other facets, (balance, strength, proprioception etc) so you continue to make gains in your ultimate goal: hypertrophy.
 
SSAlexSS said:


I really hate to give out good info away, but here it goes.

The reason why it is good to train more often is that you can add more weight in a week.

If you train 1x per week than you might add only 1X every workout.
If you train 2x per week, then you could add 1x each workjout total 2X!

2x might not see as much. But by the end of a year it WILL add up.

One of the best guys who train for olympic lifts train up to like 20 times per week.
Now ofcourse that is an extreme, but it is just here to illustrate a point.

Dont lift 20 times per bodypart per week. But hit atleast 2x....

That is fine in theory, but the body has a finite ability to continually add weight at every workout. Attempting to add weight to the bar, 2 or more times a week, is going to result in your body plateauing very quickly, that is unless you are not training with maximum intensity.
In say 8 weeks, training with only natural supplements, can you add 40lbs to your bench, and 80lbs or so to both your deads and squats. Before I decided to try anabolics, I was able to do that using just creatine and protein, evertime I aimed for it. Can you, using your "2x per week/adding weight every time" philosophy, add more weight that that in that span of time. If you say you can SSAlexSS, then you are either a beginner (they progress very quickly), or are full of crap.
 
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