Importance in order of bodyparts worked out

[shadowhunta]

he veretta,

if you are training your legs properly there is no way you would be able to do sprints two days later. in fact, your soreness should really be setting in the night of that second day. your leg training looks good, but i think you are doing too many exercises. as someone else suggested, concentrate on the core movements and perfecting them. a good, hard day of squats should be with you for at least 3-4 days.

you are also going to find it hard to add mass to your legs if you are running long distances. sprinting will build your legs well, distance running will shrink them if anything.

 

[blut wump]

On the contrary, if he's training them properly he should be able to do sprints two days later. If he's blasting them to failure then he'll have a lot of trouble sprinting but that would be a bad plan.

If he's working his legs properly as part of an athletics program they shouldn't leave him with soreness setting in. He might have to learn to live with fatigue for extended periods but he should be avoiding undue soreness by training more frequently with appropriate volume.

Your most important bodypart is in your head: "no brain, no gain" as one mag puts it.

 

[shadowhunta]

yeah, but if he wants to build mass he's going to have to blast them, unless he's a genetic freak or summat.

maybe i didn't give enough consideration to his goals, buti thought he said he was after mass.

different kind of training i suppose

 

[Veretta9]

Shadow--I definitely hear where your coming from but my legs are able to withstand a lot of work--from the fall to April they are under serious strain from practices everyday and games on the weekend---so during my offseason they take a lot of work to really hit them---anyways I really want to put as much strength as possible, mass too--but strength is priority---2 summers ago I went crazy with the workload of lifting on them(at least 6 more sets than I have now) and ended up pulling my hamstring during sprints---I think because it was just too much on them--so as of right now I think I may stick with this--also I don't do any long distance running---the longest I will run is 2 miles---my saturday cardio consists of either a good pace 2 mile run or 30/60/90 sprints where I would run hard for 30 secs, walk 60, jog 90 for like 10 intervals

 

[Madcow2]

in fact, your soreness should really be setting in the night of that second day.

Just so it's out in the open, soreness (DOMS) is not required. It is not an indicator of a successful workout from either a hypertrophy or strength progression standpoint. In actuality it is a strong indicator that a given athlete is not adequately conditioned to the workload being applied.

A good way to get sore is to train with very low frequency i.e. let's say training legs 1x per week or less and then hitting them with excessive volume to failure. Great way to get sore but a really shitty way to try to get bigger or stronger. The vast majority of athletes on good programs do not exerpience appreciable DOMS on any kind of consistent basis.

I realize it's the most common way BBers train but there is a big reason why they rely so heavily on anabolics to see gains - even those very very far below their genetic potential. Take a shitty stimulus and magnify it's effects enough and you can still make gains - even though gains would be noticably better on a good program which would be night and day for a natural athlete or one with any type of performance criteria (i.e. non-pure hypertrophy) or one who can't live on drugs due to testing requirements.

Here are some dicussions on DOMS if you are curious:
http://www.fortifiediron.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=23534
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=8507

 

[Madcow2]

Verdetta - my little boy is screaming at me. I'll be back later today/tonight and try to lay out something for you. The info you provided in my response and to your conditioning level in the DOMS one is what I was looking for. Thanks

 

[shadowhunta]

interesting points madcow2. i'm not too proud to listen to others; interesting reads.

 

[Madcow2]

interesting points madcow2. i'm not too proud to listen to others; interesting reads.

We all start out knowing nothing about anything and gradually we learn. Those who learn the most and the fastest are those who are open to ideas that may challenge their current views. They may or may not accept them and build a new framework but they will certainly consider the implications and file it away if it has promise. I think the way you are going about it is the right one. There are way too many people who approach this stuff as faith and gospel and then get emotionally involved. Learn, learn, learn. There's a lot of good links in my thread here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 If you are interested in other good sources of info you might check this thread out: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4323293&postcount=3 There are some excellent books referenced at the bottom. Probably the best ever written on the subject of training.

DOMS is an interesting one because it kind of logically seems to make sense if you use programs that elicit this type of sorness one a consistent basis. It took me a long time to figure this one out. Be very thankful for the internet these days because your odds of every seeing this in a BBing publication is slim to none unless the entire sport starts to more closely value trainining knowledge instead of just relying on drugs.

 

[Madcow2]

Never did a 1 rep max for squats because our testing in the fall is for 6 reps and I did 350 so.....bench 1 rep max is about 255---again never did a 1 rep max but for 6 I can do about 175---deadlift 1 rep max is 405----I am 23--been lifing hard for about 6 years--mostly during the summers because hockey takes up all fall and winter---but I lift during the season but its mostly to maintain what you have---the problem is I lose some strength every season and its like I am playin catch up the first half of summer--I am 6'2 have very long arms and legs so its hard to put mass on them---my chest and back are my most developed parts----what do u suggest taking out and adding

Okay - finally getting back.

So a few primary thoughts. We need to get you strong in the offseason. Right now you are in a relatively detrained state as you mention always building up and then losing your gains during the season. We need to set you up on a good offseason program and then later get something maintenance that you can run during the season with little impact. You also mention that you are fairly well conditoined and I get the feeling you can handle at least somewhat significant loads.

So first off, being detrained, we need to get your lifts up to par. I have a good 3 day per week program that has been used for a long time for football players. It's squat based and you'll see a lot of progress there. Powercleans will fit as well as the deadlift although you can opt to do high pulls or clean pulls in its place. I'm unsure of whether or not your sprint and running/2nd sprint day are moveable or not but you can setup the days around these however you see fit and providing your heavy/medium day doesn't fall right on a max sprint day you should be fine.

Anyway, lifting is like life. It's hard to get good at a lot of things at once. It's a lot better to pick a few things that are really important and push hard to improve them. Since the core lifts will account for 95% of your progress, why bother with the crap unless there is something holding back the progress in one of the big lifts. You save some of your limited recovery capacity and you can increase load and frequency in the big lifts which results in more progress.

This is what I'm thinking, http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15 check it out and give it some thought. It comes from this thread: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 where there are some fancier things but unless you are already at the top of your game it's not worth periodizing anything as you'll get your strength back fastest just pounding away for a while.

It's only 3 days per week (more is not better) so you shouldn't have a hard time getting it to fit your schedule.

Give it a read, keep the powercleans on M/F and figure out whether you want to dead or highpull/cleanpull on Wednesday. If you have any questions just post them back here or PM me if I don't get answer it within a day or so.

 

[shadowhunta]

We all start out knowing nothing about anything and gradually we learn. Those who learn the most and the fastest are those who are open to ideas that may challenge their current views. They may or may not accept them and build a new framework but they will certainly consider the implications and file it away if it has promise. I think the way you are going about it is the right one. There are way too many people who approach this stuff as faith and gospel and then get emotionally involved. Learn, learn, learn. There's a lot of good links in my thread here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 If you are interested in other good sources of info you might check this thread out: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4323293&postcount=3 There are some excellent books referenced at the bottom. Probably the best ever written on the subject of training.

DOMS is an interesting one because it kind of logically seems to make sense if you use programs that elicit this type of sorness one a consistent basis. It took me a long time to figure this one out. Be very thankful for the internet these days because your odds of every seeing this in a BBing publication is slim to none unless the entire sport starts to more closely value trainining knowledge instead of just relying on drugs.

much grats!