Workout B Rippetoe's 3x5 - Critique **VIDEOS**

[ExtraMile]

i apologise if what i say has already been said im too lazy to read through everything right now:

at the bottom of the squat your lower back is rounding

stop dropping down in the dips you want to do controlled reps when your going deep like that

the bar on your military presses is coming out to far infront of you. You grip is also too wide. use a grip about thumb length outside of shoulder width on each hand. And u dont need to rest the bar so far forward, if your gonna pause with it on your body between reps pause with it on your sternum or the very upper of your chest

dont do front squats, dont change the 3x5 program do it as it is put out. the more back squats you do the better you will get at them, trying to learn two types of squat at once isnt needed

 

[Andalite]

dont do front squats, dont change the 3x5 program do it as it is put out. the more back squats you do the better you will get at them, trying to learn two types of squat at once isnt needed

Then drop back squats altogether. Useless exercise when it comes to functionality and when you put it against front squats. Just do fronts because it will have the best carry over onto almost everything.

 

[ExtraMile]

Then drop back squats altogether. Useless exercise when it comes to functionality and when you put it against front squats. Just do fronts because it will have the best carry over onto almost everything.

wierd because probably 90% of lifters on here do back squats

 

[Andalite]

wierd because probably 90% of lifters on here do back squats

But 90% of successful athletes do front squats. But fuck it....it's my opinion. You don't have to do what I say. I was just putting a new idea out there. All this hype for back squats is only because of PL'ing. Otherwise who'd give a shit about it? Old school oly lifters - a sport which evolved well before pl'ing, had their contestants doing front squats.

 

[JDid23]

But 90% of successful athletes do front squats. But fuck it....it's my opinion. You don't have to do what I say. I was just putting a new idea out there. All this hype for back squats is only because of PL'ing. Otherwise who'd give a shit about it? Old school oly lifters - a sport which evolved well before pl'ing, had their contestants doing front squats.

don't back squats hit more muscles? I know front squats hit your quads harder, but don't back squats hit your hips and glutes harder and also use the lower back more in the lift?

 

[grubd]

But 90% of successful athletes do front squats. But fuck it....it's my opinion. You don't have to do what I say. I was just putting a new idea out there. All this hype for back squats is only because of PL'ing. Otherwise who'd give a shit about it? Old school oly lifters - a sport which evolved well before pl'ing, had their contestants doing front squats.

He is doing the Ripptoe program. It is for back squats. I believe more muscles are used in back squats.

 

[Tblock1]

But 90% of successful athletes do front squats. But fuck it....it's my opinion. You don't have to do what I say. I was just putting a new idea out there. All this hype for back squats is only because of PL'ing. Otherwise who'd give a shit about it? Old school oly lifters - a sport which evolved well before pl'ing, had their contestants doing front squats.

Just some support for andalite here: Our highschool football team uses ONLY front squats instead of back squats, and our team does really well. I just found out that the strongest guy on the team front squats 315x10 without breaking a sweat lol. One of the guy's on the team says he rarely even shows up to workouts and barely even tries but still front squats 315x10 I'm making front squats a new priority after hearing this. Also front squats numbers have been found to be one of the best predictors of a good vertical jump. I think he should do back squats, but should try front squats too.

 

[Andalite]

Who says more muscles are used in back squats? Plus, if we're speaking from functionality, Olympic lifts rank right at the top. That is why Olympic lifting isthe most elite. Having said that, which of two movements best mimics even something close to any form of an Olympic lift: the back squat or the front squat? Easy: the front squat.

Plus, I never said STOP DOING BACK SQUATS. I said DO FRONT SQUATS AND BACK SQUATS. There is nothing ultra special about learning the front squat - infact, it will help because he will be able to have better form on back squats. And when it comes to learning the lifts, front squats are much easier to learn - and safer. Therefore, my original suggestion was to do both - one on workout A and one on workout B. EM felt that learning two lifts which are similar in nature is too difficult therefore I suggested pick the one which will benefit him the most: front squats.

LOL...why are you guys so sticky with the Rippetoe program? 99% of the people who do the program end up with an injury and people were getting big and strong looooonnnnnngggg before the fad of Rippetoe rolled around.

5x5 programs are based SOLELY on Single Factor Progression and that is to limited to the load. You never increase sets or reps - only the weight.

But a beginner's goal should be to LEARN the lifts the best. What is one of the biggest problems beginners experience while learning the squat? Hip Mobility. They never manage to hit the depth they need to and then they develop a 100 other bad habits so when they become advanced (assuming they don't get injured which happens more than you think for guys who are on the Rippetoe program) and need to shift to front squats or any other movement more difficult than the back squat, they need to UNLEARN everything they've learnt and then RELEARN the whole movement. How to avoid this? Have them learn the front squat AND the back squat. I don't understand how spending more time learning a movement like the front squats can ever hamper long term progress. Makes no sense to me.

Plus, the Rippetoe program sucks balls. People have forgotten that there is more than one way to skin a cat and handing someone a standard routine with zero consideration to the most basic function of lifting: learning the lifts, is absolutely retarded.

 

[bblazer]

I'm not defending Rip here at all, like you say people can think what they want.

What I am going to ask you to do though is to back up your claims.

99% of the people who do the program end up with an injury

90% of successful athletes do front squats.

I'm calling BS on those numbers. That is unless you can provide some concrete data to support them. If you can support them with real data, I will eat all the crow you want and take it all back.

And as far as this statement goes:
Who says more muscles are used in back squats?

Let me suggest some authors that may make this a bit easier for you to digest; Everett, Delavier, Zatsiorsky, Kraemer, Strossen, The Mayo Clinic Institute of Sports Medicine report on Muscle Activation through Exercise (not available online, yet) and the Purdue Sports Physiology Study of Material Muscle Mobilization.

Look, it is obvious you have put a ton of thought into what you do and your workouts. I have even complimented you on your routines and things that you have incorporated into them that I don't see very often in other's plans. What you are lacking, however, is experience. You have done what you think has gone well for you. THat's great, and that's what it's all about. The bottom line is that you need to realize that there will come a time when what you are doing will fail you. It doesn't matter what program you are using, or what methods you are employing, but at some time you will need to make a drastic change if you want to continue making progress. And if you have already thrown the baby out with the bath water when it comes to other modes of thinking, then you, my friend, are screwed.

B-

 

[Andalite]

I am talking about other means of progression than what Rippetoe suggests: simply adding weight to the bar. I don't even think absolute max weights are PRs and from time to time I don't even look at PRs because to me PRs can mean a whole lot of things. For Rippetoe, a PR is a PR only if you increase the weight. He limits every form of progression down to just one factor: the load. And I am the one who threw the baby out with the bathwater?

You asked me about injury rate. Fine. Thats pretty easy to answer. For the next 3-4 days, just check out the Workout Programs section on bb.com. Everyday there will be a bunch of "injured while on Rippetoe" threads which will pop up. But, lets say you discount that: a few years ago there were these guys who were the biggest campaigners of Ripp's program. One of them - the most impressive of the lot, managed to (in 9 months and @ 16 years of age) get so strong he could Squat 500 lbs, Deadlift 600 lbs and Bench Press 450 lbs. What happened to him? Nobody knows. His last journal entry was something he got injured and ever since, there's been no talk of him. At one time, if somebody argued that Rippetoe doesn't get you strong, he'd be set forth as an example. He was their true poster boy. I think his name's Toefur or something...I dunno...can't remember the details.

If you want to talk about injuries, head over to the Rippetoe forum - it used to be on Strength Mill and now it's on his own site. Whenever Rippetoe is questioned by some kid talking about being injured, he tells the kid to deal with it. Rippetoe is extremely callus in his approach to injury prevention. You ask him how to avoid injuries and he's gonna give a very simple answer: "Be careful and other than that there is nothing because everyone gets injured so fucking deal with it." Now, IMO that is no way to address such an issue. To me, injuries aren't a joke and every single thing should be done to avoid them like the freaking Black Plague.

Rippetoe isn't selling his book for charity. This is a money making business for him. He's not helping people out on his forum for fun. It's marketing. His goal is to profit. Who is his market? Teenagers and youngsters just getting into lifting who he can talk shit to and treat like shit and they just keep coming back for more and more.

Ask Rippetoe about foam rolling, mobility drills, unilateral exercises, how to avoid and prevent injury and about progressing using something other than single factor or linear periodization.

If someone is new to lifting, what should be the primary focus: loading the bar or the quality of each rep? Rippetoe says load I say quality.

Linear factor periodization is just A-Ok. There's nothing wrong with that and I have zero issues with that principle. But we're not discussing that.

If you guys want to know more about this, go to the forums I listed and check it out for yourself. Also, spend some time on IA's forum - which has some of the storngest people on the internet posting and helping others on it and you can check for yourself how almost none of the big guys are fans of Rippetoe plus most of them don't like his exercise cues either.