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MY PICS - need help losing fat and maybe a bit of leg muscle

T

thin

New member
Hi guys, I Susan I run "The Thin Page" it's a board for people who want to be very thin-- thin is I'm one of the few people there who wants to be muscular and thin. So I'd like to post my pic for comments and se if you guys have any ideas for helping me to real my goals.

tabcan.jpg


my goals:
lose 10 lbs, 7 fat, 3 muscles(ideally from the legs)
increase the gap between the thighs
improve my mile time for 5+ miles
lose remaining fat on arms
get a overall more 'emaciated' look.

My current plan included about 30 miles of running a week- and weights in reps of 8 sets of 4.

I eat between 800-1200 calories a day.

I don't know if you will be able to help... but I thought it'd would be worth a shot!



Susan
http://futurebird.diaryland.com
http://www.futurebird.com/thin
 
OH MY you are kidding right??? You have nothing to lose!!! You are beyond thin...Why do you want to look like this? and why would you want to lose any muscle off of your body?? I once did all the starving deal and cardio for days and it produces nothing but an unhealthy body. You put yourself at risk for so many things that you may not think about now..because you may think it wont happen to you. You need muscle on your body..you can actually lower your bodyfat % if you acquire more lean mass on your body..having lean tissue will help you prevent osteoporosis..which you will be well on your way to if you dont change your nutrition and lifestyle..it also helps prevent heart disease...diabetes...arthritis pain..back pain..and so on..this is not the way to do it..nor will you ever be satisfied with the way you look...if you want a firm and tight body you have to FEED your body and lift weights...it wont come from eating a salad and running 20 miles a day..you will lose weight...you will lose fat but muscle as well..so your bodyfat can actually become higher than when you started..and why would you want that?? You are shooting yourself in the foot..

Eating 6 times a day and incorporating some strength training will NOT make you fat...it will only benefit you physically and mentally. In your pictures you look depressed and so unhealthy...this is not something you want to continue with..your legs are tiny...you dont need to lose muscle in your legs!!!! nor do you need to lose anything anywhere.you need to get your ass off a skinny board and wake up before it is too late for you. Why do you want to be so thin? Do you have a role model in mind? It is not attractive nor is it healthy..many that are that thin usually have eating disorders and drug problems..My advice to you is to change your ways now and begin a healthier way of life...you will drive yourself insane and it is only a vicious cycle that keeps repeating itself.
 
At the risk of starting another one of "those" threads, the first thing to *really* consider are your goals. Do they make sense or is it just "a look" that you want. If its the "look" that you want, also consider if its something that you want at the expense of your health or going against something that your body naturally wants to do. Consider your own words: "get a overall more 'emaciated' look. " -- Why? What do you hope to accomplish by this? Is this something that will improve the quality of your life? I guess I can't come up with any remotely reasonable answer to that question so I would be interested in your response. I think we could give you a hundred reasons why not to, but the ultimate decision is yours. I would ask that you take a really good look at what you want to accomplish and see if you are convinced that your goals will achieve something good & healthy. "Good" may be something that gives you pride/pleasure, whatever in the short term, but is it ultimately healthy in the long term? What good is "feelign good" (about yourself, or whatever) now, when it just reduces the quality of your life?

I totally support what New@ said.
 
Ladies, posted this definition that I found on google.com.
Just a thought...
Knowing what we discuss here on Elite & what we believe (build lean mass, lift, lift, lift), perhaps the below is something to consider...

Troll:
To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite.

2. n. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll."

The use of `troll' in either sense is a live metaphor that readily produces elaborations and combining forms. For example, one not infrequently sees the warning "Do not feed the troll" as part of a followup to troll postings.
 
I agree with the girls, you don't look like you need to lose any weight! I used to be extremely thin, and ended up at the doc once a week for a ton of health problems I had brought on myself. If you know the right things to eat, you can gain muscle and look thin, AND be healthy!!!
 
Eating 6 times a day and incorporating some strength training

I do eat 6 times a day. I eat a diet of raw vegtables, fruits and lean meat. (no refined sugars or grains etc.) I eat often too, just no many calories. Also, I do do weights (*mutters read my post...*) I can bench 120 lbs! I like muscle. :)

There is fat on my body. I'm about %14-16 now, I think I can get it down a little. (I thought I was at 12, but I just had a guy take it again and it is UP! :( )

get a overall more 'emaciated' look. " -- Why? What do you hope to accomplish by this?

I want to feel good about myself. And like the way I look. If my helth get bad, I guess I'd have to stop-- but so far I feel better than I did before:

fatbird.jpg


So my real question is: how do I recuse the muscle in my legs by just a little? I'm not gonna stop running and fast becuse I like running to much-- also I don't know if stopping with the weights will cause me to have more fat?

Oh well, if you can't help I'll go some place else-- thanks anyway!

Susan
http://futurebird.diaryland.com
http://www.futurebird.com/thin
 
I agree with Sassy and New@. THis makes me especially sad since I've been there. I've been in the hospital on IV's. I've done permanent damage to my body from starving it and from purging. My goal was the same as what you listed and I just about died because of it.

Regardless of how thin I got, it was never enough. I had it in my head that once I got to be a certain size or once I hit a certain weight, that I'd be happy. Well, I'd get to that point and no peace came with it. Anyone with an ed doesn't need a lecture on why it's bad-- it's not like we don't know that, it's a choice.

It took me a long time to come back up to a "healthy" weight. Once I was there I was dissatisfied with my body. I had 2 choice-- start the whole damn cycle again or find something else. Now I'm eating like a mad woman and lifting heavy. Did that scare the hell out of me?? Yes. Is it still hard sometimes?? Yes. It's it worth it?? Yes, more than I can even explain.

Every week my body is healing and growing. I was trim to begin with (being a healthy weight doesn't mean I was fat). Now my body fat is melting off. How ironic that after spending most of my life (since childhood) depriving myself of food trying to be thin, it's the tool that is now working to melt the fat off of me. I can almost gaurantee that a lot of the women on Elite weigh much more than people on your website but have lower body fat.

That's just a little of my experience. I'm not going to give you a "lecture" because I'm assuming that you're a smart woman and know the consequences of what you're doing. I may not agree with your decision, but I've been there so I understand. I've spent most of my life battling with body to look unhealthy. I've done it for a whole hell of a lot of reasons, but the weight never really was one of them. I'm finally looking in the mirror and liking what I see. I cannot even tell you how empowering that is.
 
The simple answer is that you need fuel to build - put in sufficient amounts of good quality fuel and your body will have enough energy to build the muscle that you want to increase your strength as well as provide a strong skeletal & muscle system to support itself. As the body begins to burn the optimal amount of nutrients to meet the strength and foundation goal, it will have preference to burn up extra fat and also to replace it with more solid muscle.

On your 800-1200 cal / day (its good that you are doing the 6 meals / day thing, and also sounds like the diet content is good), you are probably starving your body. It doesn't have enough fuel to run on and won't be able to generate muscle growth. As a matter of fact, its probably trying to hold onto the body fat that you do have because it thinks its existing in a famine environment. Try upping the calories a little and see what happens. "Emaciated" is not a healthy state for your body.

If you provide the right amount of fuel so your body can run optimally, the lean look and muscle will follow. If you starve it, it will continually be in an unbalanced state where you are driving it to perform (lift, cardio, etc) but not providing enough calories for it to do this long term. You can force it to do it for a while, but ultimately it will take its toll.
 
THis makes me especially sad since I've been there. I've been in the hospital on IV's. I've done permanent damage to my body from starving it and from purging.

But I'm not starving or purging! My BMR is only like 1400 so 1200 is not "starvation" I'm supposed to lose about 1/2 lb a week and that's how it's going pretty much.

-Susan
 
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next to ur pics u wrote "if u know who i am dont spoil my fun"

what does that mean?
i know who u are and i dont understand what that meant....nor would i ever ruin any "fun" ... i luv parties...and jokes... just not on my turf so whats up?

if want more muscle...u have ur answer -- read the posts above. if this about any drama ur haivng at the thin forum the people who harrass u guys over there and from elite are most likely retards from the chat forum... not the women's forum.
 
The simple answer is that you need fuel to build - put in sufficient amounts of good quality fuel and your body will have enough energy to build the muscle that you want to increase your strength as well as provide a strong skeletal & muscle system to support itself. As the body begins to burn the optimal amount of nutrients to meet the strength and foundation goal, it will have preference to burn up extra fat and also to replace it with more solid muscle.


Okay, that is very helpful. I heard that shrimp was high in protein but low in calories? I will go out on a limb and try 200 cal of shrimp or another meat a day for a week and see what happens.

If this makes me fat I'm gunna kick you arse!

Thanks!

:)

-Susan
 
what does that mean?
i know who u are and i dont understand what that meant....nor would i ever ruin any "fun" ... i luv parties...and jokes... just not on my turf so whats up?

Oh I posted these pics on the thin page for comments under another username to try and get people to be honest... don't worry about it.

-Susan
 
thin said:
what does that mean?
i know who u are and i dont understand what that meant....nor would i ever ruin any "fun" ... i luv parties...and jokes... just not on my turf so whats up?

Oh I posted these pics on the thin page for comments under another username to try and get people to be honest... don't worry about it.

-Susan
Click to expand...

i know, lol...
take care of urself grl!!
 
i would also like to add that drugs....especially coke... will eat ur muscles along with everything else in ur body.

sooooooo EVERYONE stay happy, healthy and clean..:)
 
I quit taking phentermine. It was OK for a little while, but then it just stopped working and when I quit I was terribly hungry for a whole week! :mad:

No if I could get up the guts to stop smoking--- I bought some of the gum. Soon, soon.

:confused:
 
Um

You look great already from what i see you dont need to loose any weight just stay like you are, exactly where you want to be thin and toned like you said

:)
 
Okay, that is very helpful. I heard that shrimp was high in protein but low in calories? I will go out on a limb and try 200 cal of shrimp or another meat a day for a week and see what happens.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU for considering this. We've had some very heated threads on the topic of the Thin Forum and it is not my goal to bring any of that up. Just as with use of AS, it is ultimatetly your decision to do it/not do it, regardless of what anyone on this board says. It doesn't help the situation further to be reduced to a flame fest. On this (the women's) board, we actually enjoy a certain amount of civility, I think an amazing amount of responsibility, support and information, relative to the typical internet forum, and I hope that this will continue to be preserved.

To this end, for any person who comes on here (myself included), with questions or frustrations about whatever they are doing or not doing to reach a goal, I would challenge you to first consider the suggestions made - granted there is a lot of experience and differing suggestions, generally the opinions and messages are the same -- take those suggestions (or some subset of them) and apply them for 3 weeks to see the results, before pursuing what is often just the temptation to look for a "quick fix".

This includes:
- Use of AS, T3 and other "alternative" supplements for "weight loss"
- Severely reduced calories in order to "get thin"
- Use of a serious lifting schedule vs. cardio to "lose fat"
- Use of a serious lifting schedule to "tone up"
- Use of a reasonable diet to "get rid of those love handles"
- Use of a serious lifting schedule and diet instead of AS, T3 and other "alternative" supplements to "get big" / "get tight" / "tone up"

So..... back to the post....

Susan - can you post your diet? I would propose that your body would respond very nicely to a little more stuff to run on - this may include some more complex carbs, etc. while still remaining within your "comfort zone".

As far as "making you fat".... you might experience an increase in size or weight or bodyfat because you are upping your intake, but remember that if you are training, this will, by necessity, be used - but if you are introducing a change in your diet, during the tranisition you may experience bloating or other tranisitory "symptoms" that might make you think you're "getting fat". Please give the change a chance to work - thus my challenge to give the change a 3 week trial period before you get frustrated or freaked out and toss it in favor of reduced calories again.
 
well done sassy

susan- welcome
my first thought is you're in a training rut - I've read (on EF) about making small changes in your cardio can make big difference in your results
perhaps a change from your long endurance running to short, high intensity sprinting (or something like that)

drop some of your sugar (fruit) add in the shrimp or other protein I think you will see changes and like them :)
 
My diet consists of foods that I consider "safe" I never eat the same thing every day, but my plan is always around 800-1200 calories.

Foods I'll eat:
unprocessed bran fiber (great stuff just 90 cal a cup!)
most sweet fruits (apples pears etc.)
tart fruits (grapefruit, lemons, but not oranges...don't ask)
Sometimes some avocado
Soy Milk (mixed with the unprocessed bran)
mushrooms (too many to count)
Miso Soup mixes (high in sodium, but yummy!)
plain lean cuts of steak (twice a week maybe)
shrimp (when I have the cash)
leafy vegetables (collard greens, spinach, leeks mostly raw)
onions (raw)
most squash (baked)
garlic (raw and roasted... love it!)
coco powder (indispensable like it with hot water)
air popped popcron (a treat!)
tons of water
whole lot of salt (I LOVE SALT)


Today I'll have:

5 pieces of fruit
1/2 cup bran
some mushrooms onions and miso soup
1/2 cup soy milk
raw spinach with salt
acron squash


I try to eat the shrimp or steak (I don't like chicken!) like every other day, but I must admit I don't crave either much and would rather eat more fruit or veggies.

The things I don't eat are basically:

breads, creals, grain
and milk cheese and dairy
sugars

-S
 
Today? Is this the day's total? Your metabolism will continue to slow if this is all you're eating. On this, your body's doing it's best just to survive. It's going to cling for dear life to whatever bodyfat you have. Even when I was an 80 pound skeleton, I had jiggly thighs. It took me 20 years to see the light and I ended up fatter rather than skinnier until 2 years ago.

I learned how muscle burns calories even at rest (fat burns nothing) AND muscle is denser than fat (so if you trade 5 pounds of fat for 5 pounds of muscle, you'll be thinner and firmer. You get to eat more when you have muscle. In fact you HAVE to eat more just to grow the muscle, and even when eating more you still lose bodyfat. (It's like the world's best kept secret!)

You need more protein and you also need some healthy fats like flaxseed oil. EACH meal should contain some protein, some carbs, and some healthy fats. Someone mentioned Body For Life - check out that book, that's pretty close to the diet I follow, but it doesn't seem like a diet to me - more like an "ALL U CAN EAT" gorgefest since I wasn't used to eating!

The proper nutrient balance makes a huge difference. You'll start to have more energy which lets you train better. The protein helps to build muscle. The healthy fats help burn bodyfat and make you feel full longer. Your body needs enough food and nutrients to keep your metabolism high. That's what will burn fat. I didn't believe any of this either at first, but I gave it a shot and kept coming back to this board for more inspiration. Low and behold it worked for me and lots of others!
 
I learned how muscle burns calories even at rest (fat burns nothing) AND muscle is denser than fat (so if you trade 5 pounds of fat for 5 pounds of muscle, you'll be thinner and firmer. You get to eat more when you have muscle. In fact you HAVE to eat more just to grow the muscle, and even when

I've been trying to turn some of the people at the thin page on to this idea. Still I find it surprising that you think I should eat more. Would that cause me to gain? (I'm talking size not weight here! I'd be okay with being 150 lbs if I looked thinner, if my things, for instance were 16" instead of 19" ...)

My base metabolic rate is low since I'm very small I only weigh 95 lbs so at rest I burn 950 a day add in 200 for the light office work I do and 250 for my work out and I only burn about 1400 a day, if I eat more than that it will be stored as fat. Right?

Um. Maybe I'm missing something, but my meal plan is about 1000 calories which more than covers my BMR and all my extra activity should be used to burn remaining fat?

If I ate more my thought is that I would stop burning fat. In fact when I mess up and eat say 1400 I go out of ketosis (I got some of those test strips, I love 'em!).

If I ate 1400 every day I think I either stay the same or gradually rebuild the fat that I spent the last 6 months losing.

I'm going to try the shrimp thing though-- That will be about 1200 a day and I think that is okay I'll see how I feel after a week. I really scared I'm going to puff up but the total exces (in shrimp) will be only 1400 calories and I'll burn most of that off on my race this weekend!

Thanks guys I'll let you know how it goes.

-Susan
 
I think there's still some confusion in perception of "size", "weight", "how I look".. What is the goal? Is it to look thin? Or lean and solid with some muscle? Is it the number on the scale? You said you are going for the "emaciated" look -- which to me translates to "bag of bones", but you still want some muscle. The two are mutually exclusive.

You have a fear that if you increase your calories you will blow up / gain weight / get fat. This is all a perception, and a false one at that. Let me give you an example. I have always had a pear shape and an extra 10-15 lbs on me. That seems to be my body's "comfortable" weight or my "plateau". OK fine. I've been lifting most of my life and I build muscle fairly easily, but I also collect some fat in the process - just the way my body type works.

So I decide I"m gonna do my first bodybuilding show in Aug of 2000. I got the brilliant idea that I was gonna try a "no carb diet" - not really a diet, I just quit eating most carbs. Of course within a few weeks I was getting light headed and all the stuff associated with lack of carbs. But I didnt' know about increasing fats or anything else (similar to a ketogenic diet). I lost some weight. So in April I go start training for this competition. Here are my stats as I progressed over 4 months with diet and training, some cardio:

May 7: 155 lb, 16% bf
June 2: 148 lb 12 % bf
July 1: 144 lb 11% bf
Aug 9: 140 lb 9% bf
Aug 26: 133 lb 8% bf - competition day (lost about 6 lbs in water weight in the last few days)

Check this - I lost total, about 15 lbs (excluding water weight because it comes back following the competition), but also gained more muscle, but i dropped from about a size 10 to a size 5-6, in some cases even a 4 in pants. And I wasn't friggin emaciated. I couldn't even do that while starving myself on the "no carb diet".

The lean look you can get with a clean diet that provides enough food for your body to operate at maximum efficiency. When it does that and you are training, you burn what you eat - it doesnt' get deposited as fat. You may see your weight go up as you build more muscle - muscle weighs more than fat, but your body fat will drop. When your body fat drops, you get the lean look without sacrificing your health, your energy, etc. If you don't provide enough food, your body will slow down, burn what it needs to continue to function but at the cost of those body functions that need those nutrients. The ultimate goal is to give your body exactly what it needs to run, not too much, not too little, and it will, by nature, seek to run as optimally as it can - thus providing you with lean, yet muscular look that you want.

Hope this helps some. If you eat, don't assume you will blow up. Its counter intuitive, but that's the way the body works. Its a fantastic machine that is callibrated to work optimally - but if you dont' fuel it appropriately, it will either bog down or burn out.

Oh, another thing about numbers -- bodyfat. Numbers around 8-10% are extremely low for women. 6-8% is considered competition body building level and is maintained ONLY for a period of a few days around competition time. Levels below 10% can probably "turn off" your menstrual cycle, which has been shown to affect the calcium levels in your body, and can ultimately lead to brittle bones. The average female has about 23-25% bf. This is *healthy* and *normal*. Several of the girls here are pursuing levels around 14-18%. Personally I'd want to stay about 15% off season. At 8% bf, my joints were sore - I felt like a bag of bones and didnt' think my body would be very happy with me attempting to maintain somethign like that. My point here is that just as the number on the scale can instill fear, the number on the bodyfat can freak people out too. If you are 16% bf, you are NOT obese. What makes up that 16% is what should be important. Do you want to be 16% and anorexic (skinny fat) or 16% and lean with some nice muscle? The number is something that helps you gauge where you are but the quality of the muscle & fat that makes up that ratio is what's really important.
 
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Well to give you and idea of the look I'm going for she:

turn.jpg


is perfect!

so is she:

loroupe.jpg


but she (looks great) but is way to big and NOT how I want to look:

jones07.jpg



(all these people are my heros though! I love women runners, but esp. marathon runners.. I'm running in the 2002 NYC marathon! hope to get miles under ten for that...)

so I guess it's a mix of a look and running and how I feel-- like how you feel when you wake up in the moning and you body feels right and NOT gross.

-Susan
 
omg susan... thats freakin nasty!! im sorry grl but seriously .. GAG!! i was going to say the last pic u posted was the best out them all! she looks the most "normal" .. the first one is totally disgusting! eeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww
 
Something you might want to consider if you're a marathon runner:

Endurance athletes need FAR more carbs than strength athletes. How do you have the energy to get out of bed, never mind run? (Not flaming, just saying ...) You need to get clear on your goals. Training styles and nutrition programmes for strength and endurance athletes are completely different. Marathon running is catabolic - it tears down muscle - see that woman in the pic you posted - she has very little muscle, and the muscle she DOES have is likely mostly red fibre - small and built for endurance. Beyond about 90 minutes of cardio exercise, the body starts using protein for fuel - i.e. muscle. Strength training activates white muscle fibres, which have the greatest potential for hypertrophy, or growth. They are for speed and size. The bigger the muscles, the more fat they will burn. That's how come bodybuilders can get shredded and marathon runners can't. See the woman in the bottom pic? She's a sprinter (right?) - the type of training she does encourages hypertrophy - that's why her legs are so big and muscular - and you'll notice she's far more shredded than the marathoner, who has the "bag of bones" look.

Are you wanting to be a *competitive* marathoner? I mean, are you interested in winning, not just running? Then start eating more carbs and resign yourself to the skinny-fat look forever. Don't worry - the carbs will all burn off whilst running, and your body shape will remain pretty much the same it is now. If you want the shredded but muscular look, cut out the cardio, keep the carbs lowish, and hit the weights hard and heavy.

Ladies, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything here.
 
KBgrl said:
omg susan... thats freakin nasty!! im sorry grl but seriously .. GAG!! i was going to say the last pic u posted was the best out them all! she looks the most "normal" .. the first one is totally disgusting! eeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww
Click to expand...

Ha ha. You want me to post some pics of muscular chicks at the thin page and see how they react? Exactly the same.

I had to use the pictures of Turn and Laroupe to convince them that *distance running* would not give them "man legs" :rolleyes:
(if you do read the topic let me know if I have any facts wrong-- it would be a big help...)


Don't dis the top two women, they will kick your ass on 20+ mile runs (so would I, I might add... I think :D )

I think Marion (the fastest woman sprinter in the word, last pic) is AMAZING I'd love to look like her, but -uh- I'm 5'1" and slow like the truck so not only would I look like a small tank with all that muscle but I would not even be any good at my sport!

Hmm question about the carbs: do you need to eat them every day or just before a long run? I switch to carbs before a race... but every day. eek!
 
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Just wanted to add I'm not a competitive runner I just enjoy it-- personnel best and all that, you know. 10 min miles are slooooow. But, I think I can do better.

:)
 
thin said:


Ha ha. You want me to post some pics of muscular chicks at the thin page and see how they react? Exactly the same.

Don't dis the top two women, they will kick your ass on 20+ mile runs (so would I, I might add... I think :D )
Click to expand...

i was a runner for yrs babydoll.... but i was a sprinter. call me crazy but i never found that death look really cool. maybe it just wasnt "in" at the time.;) :p

susan susan susan!!!

what are we gonna do with uuuuuuuuuuuuu?!?!?
 
thin said:
Hmm question about the carbs: do you need to eat them every day or just before a long run? I switch to carbs before a race... but every day. eek!
Click to expand...

OK, firstly, I'm not a diet expert. I've learnt a little through studying and these boards, but I can only tell you what that is - not if it's true or works.

Lots of people live without carbs - if you go over to the diet board in this forum, you'll find tons of Atkins dieters - but frankly, I don't think any of them are distance runners, and if they are, they're certainly not any good at it. As far as I know, extremely low or no-carb diets are used only by bodybuilders who are on (temporary) competition diets, or by supremely obese people who have a great deal of weight to lose, or by people who have a problem digesting sugars (I don't know anything about this).

No carbs = no energy. I heard somewhere that it takes up to 100g of carbs a day simply to sustain your BRAIN. What many women here do to lose fat is cycle their carb intake - go low for 2 or 3 days, then high for a day or 2, repeat process. If carbs really freak you out (something I would look at closely as a problem in itself) you could time your high days to carb up the night before or morning of a run, and go low on the days you're not running - but again, I don't know much about carb cycling for endurance athletes.

As for your comment about whippin' our asses on a 20 mile run: this is meaningless - this is a BODYBUILDING forum - nobody here is interested in running 20 miles, since their style of training and nutrition is designed around the ANAEROBIC pathways of muscular energetics. What YOU are interested in is AEROBIC exercise - the two are on OPPOSITE sides of the muscular energy continuum.

Perhaps you need to find a running and endurance sport board and ask for dietary advice there - you're likely to make more headway - I think it unlikely that bodybuilding styles of nutrition and training are suited to your goals.

I wouldn't mention there, though, your ability to whup their asses in the 20m, because frankly, I find it surprising that you are able to walk to your car, never mind run a race.

I don't wish to be mean, simply evaluating your goals in relation to where you are asking for advice.
 
Your performance goals are admirable if you want to be a world class marathon runner. Marathon runners rely a huge amount on fatty acid oxidation for fuel, so they need to maintain a relatively high amount of readily accessible bodyfat. You will find endurance athletes/triathletes etc....all over the world who have unremarkable physiques (ie not much muscle but a lot of bodyfat on a skinny frame). This is what they desire in life. So if this is also your goal, then by all means you should drop ALL weight training, and limit carbs to train your body to burn fats for fuel. Carbs are not enough for events over 60-90 minutes. Beyond that, ya gotta have lots of sub-Q fat and very little muscle mass to do well in marathon or ultramarathon events, Excess leg muscle is definitely a disadvantage as are excess calories. My advice again is to completely drop weight training.
 
Hah - I knew I was missing something very important, but at least I had my disclaimers in there. Here's a question, though. Once an endurance athlete's glycogen stores are depleted, they fatigue somewhat, right? And their body goes into converting fatty acids for fuel? That fatigue would continue, wouldn't it, until they got some carbs, because of the longer conversion path? What if, at that point, they drink one of those carbohydrate jellies or something? Back to carbs for fuel, and a boost in energy, no? (Sorry - you read one or two books, you just gotta check it with the pros).

And in terms of calories, what about, say, the Iditarod competitors - I read somewhere that some of the male competitors go through up to 10 000 calories a day on that race. I assume they drop that by many thousands when not racing, and would not want to pack on weight they'd have to carry around, but even so, how would you define excess calories? If you're running a lot, you're gonna be burning a fair amount of fuel.
 
Thin,

We all have our own ideal of what we want ourselves to look like, and if you want to look like a distance runner, go for it. The best way, I think, would be to eat and train like one. Still, I'm betting they eat more than what you're eating.

It takes a lot of fuel to do what they do. Winning the race is their goal, not how they look - that just happens as a result. Many of them do lift weights to enhance muscular endurance and to regain strength for the next race.

Check out Runners World magazine and various running nutrition books. If you have a local running club, contact them (even if competing is not your goal) and learn about their diet and training regimen, maybe even join them for some training runs (lots of clubs let you do that). Who knows, maybe the compete bug will bite and you'll have a great time running, competing, and end up w/ the body you want in the process.
 
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MS said:
Marathon runners rely a huge amount on fatty acid oxidation for fuel, so they need to maintain a relatively high amount of readily accessible bodyfat.
Click to expand...
MS-
Is this why so many runners & cardio queens look flabby to me? :confused:
 
There ya go thin -- do you want the "look" or the performance? To get the "look" by any other means than how your model person got it, you're going to be forcing and probably not get the same results, or get the same results in look, but pay for it somehow with health or other unexpected side effects. If your goal is actually to become a better distance runner, then maybe follow the diet and training programs the pros follow and you will get something like the look you want in the process. Your current diet / training is probably inhibiting you from doing that anyway.

I guess that's why I was trying to say how important it is to evaluate your goals when you are inducing a change on your body. Is it just for the "look"? Then is how you are going about it reasonable? Its hard to make fast changes to your body and people get impatient. Usually the "quick fix" ends up costing more in the long run, so if you are really interested in achieving something, first make sure that it *IS* reasonable and then plan your approach correctly. Then execute.
 
Yes Steel, distance runners rely a lot on both glycogen AND fatty acids for fuel. If they run out of either then they hit the wall. Susan has stated "so I guess it's a mix of a look and running and how I feel-- like how you feel when you wake up in the moning and you body feels right and NOT gross." I would suggest that you pick one of those goals to work on. If it's to do well in a marathon, then you need to eat a lot more and run a lot more. Marathoners are not born overnight. Set yourself a long term (5 year) goal and increase your running distances along with your food intake. By running long distances, your body will eventually carry less weight and more fat. It's an adaptive process, so it takes time.

If you just want to look as thin as you can, then do not do any weight training, but continue with your current diet while increasing your running. If you just want to 'feel good' about yourself in the mirror than invest in some liposuction as well.
 
If you're running a lot, you're gonna be burning a fair amount of fuel.


Yes, and no. One of the reasons that runners try to drop weight is because carrying it around for 20+ miles makes the race much more grueling.

The less you weigh the less you burn, just think about carying a 5 lb weight 20+ miles! If you don't need it to run it's gotta go!

When I started running and was 125 lbs I burned about 100 calories running a mile-- now I think I burn about 65. That's only 1690 calories in a marathon! Not even a lb of fat. (3500 cal)

The books I read say to eat a largish (500 cal more than normal) meal for three days before a race.

10,000 cal seems a bit nutty.

I bet you guys burn like -180- cal when you run a mile-- That's why ya'll have to eat so much. You'd starve to death in like a weak on my diet and running schduale!
 
thin said:
If you're running a lot, you're gonna be burning a fair amount of fuel.


Yes, and no. One of the reasons that runners try to drop weight is because carrying it around for 20+ miles makes the race much more grueling.

The less you weigh the less you burn, just think about carying a 5 lb weight 20+ miles! If you don't need it to run it's gotta go!

When I started running and was 125 lbs I burned about 100 calories running a mile-- now I think I burn about 65. That's only 1690 calories in a marathon! Not even a lb of fat. (3500 cal)
Click to expand...


yep = of course long distance runners TRY to be very thin. They are much more successful when they are light. The lighter the better for them BUTTTTTTTTTTTT you're upset because you can't burn a pound of fat in one marathon? that's kinda funny susan.

relax chica......... don't make this so difficult. Listen to what MS said. Just run, eat, and chilllllllllll out. You'll become a skinny little rail in no time sweetie :)
we want updated pics too;)
 
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thin

Thin,

Personally, I think you look great - but I understand about wanting to debulk the thighs. I am "cursed" with big muscular thighs, myself.

Here's a link to an exercise for de-bulking thighs - apparently the emphasis is on increasing the muscle density from insertion to insertion - rather than fattening up the bulk of the muscle. If you've been doing squats or presses with bad form - you're going to get more bulk in the mid muscle. Especially if you are saving your knees by not going lifting the full range of movement - I'm guilty of that, myself.

http://www.t-tapp.com/articles/legs/default.htm

Take a look at the link. Remember that you need to tense the muscles from the hip to the toes. NOT easy. Take it slow and concentrate on tenses throughout the entire leg.

Fawn
 
Whats all this talk about "debulk"...What you don't realize, is that your leg muscles aren't THAT big!!! You just have more fat over them, that makes them look like that.
 
Nicotine patches and a burning desire to be the best at something from which cigarette smoking holds you back. 'Course, you already know all the stuff about how grossly it stinks, hair and teeth, health, etc, etc.
 
damn!! "thin" i truely hope u dont want to look like that chick in that pic u posted [u no the runner, the first one] thats just sick!!
im not dissin' u but why do you want to look like that? theres nothing wrong with it but why do you want to look like that??
 
this is sad...

OK, this is really sad...
first of all...the thin page is a pro anorexia site...you need professional help....and im not saying that bc i am just trying to shut u up or anything bc i have been there and i have been to the thin page in search of ways to better starve myself and i have also been hospitalized for anorexia...
but also to the people who are responding you and telling you to get out of ur training rut or to cut back on cals more or carbs more or any type of further food restriction....i must say...shut up...dont encourage something u wont be able to fix...
 
My first thought when I saw the pics was "crack whore". If you're not doing it now, crack may be just the thing to kick your self-destruction into high gear. Meth is also a cheap, viable alternative.
 
Why on earth would you come to a bodybuilding board to get information on how to look like a marathon runner? I am sure there are boards out there that deal with that specifically so I must assume that you want something far different from us than advice on how to get the "look" that you want.
 
Those pics are FUCKIN GROSS!!! I would rather have more bodyfat..than look that ghastly thin...it is VERY unhealthy looking and not attractive at all....Yeah run 50 miles a day and eat a few carrots and drink some water and you will look like that and also find yourself in a hospital with a sheet over your head...get a clue! That is not healthy....Your diet is terrible...you are lacking so much and your body is going to end up getting really fucked up...its not something to mess w/. Your body needs fuel to live...you are not eating 1/2 the amount of calories that you should..you need to educate yourself and learn how to properly eat and then look into training w/ weights and so on...you need to master your diet first...diet is 90% of everything..and your diet needs a lot of work!!

The less you eat..the slower your good ol metabolism becomes...and you will end up having all kinds of problems the rest of your life..for what...to look like a tree branch? What the fuck for..how many men are attracted to that? You see those runners do a lot of endorsements dont you?? Very pretty to look at..they look like something off feed the children...eat some freakin food and do it consistently..go see someone about nutrition and do it right..if you wont listen to us, go to someone that can help you in your area...you will NOT get fat by eating healthy...if you do it right..you would be impressed by your results..your way has death written all over it....change now while you can..before it is too late!
 
I don't want to be "pretty" or to get men. I want to like how I look and feel tough and gnarly like an old shoe!

Well, I stuck to the shrimp for another week-- I didn't lose any though. I think it's because I had too much poppcorn. And I skipped my run since I had to work late.

I have a race on the 9th! So I'll let you know how the times are.

The leg press at my gym is broke. Is there another way to do the same thing with free weights?

-Susan
http://futurebird.diaryland.com

PS. I do go to runners sites but they don't understnd why I lift so much-- my goal is about how I *feel* and my time in a race is just a part of it.
 
thin said:
I don't want to be "pretty" or to get men. "


don't worry, the women on this board have said the same thing a million times. We hear ya susan.



"Well, I stuck to the shrimp for another week-- I didn't lose any though. I think it's because I had too much poppcorn. And I skipped my run since I had to work late"

LOL!!!

"I have a race on the 9th! So I'll let you know how the times are"

Good luck darlin!!! Run your little ass off, literally and figuratively speaking, hehe..


"The leg press at my gym is broke. Is there another way to do the same thing with free weights?"
Try some squats.:)

Have fun be safe , keep eating SHRIMP, lol...and let us no how you do!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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thin said:
I want to like how I look and feel tough and gnarly like an old shoe!
Click to expand...

LOL! Me too! This description is so perfect, I might just have to add it to my sig. I wanna be like a beat-up old addidas original!

(oh, and I'm giving some serious consideration to shrimp now, having read all your endorsements...)

love mini :goof:
 
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LOL mini-- adidas originals...sweet!

And yesssss consider the shrimp grl! they are very low calories... they don't you that heavy feeling, they are very good for you, and they taste yummy too so eat up sugar plum:)
 
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