Here's what I think about calories and LBM

[SteelWeaver]

I have come to realise lately that my body WILL NOT frigging well CUT without what appears to be a HUGE caloric deficit. Like 1000 cals or more. Especially not if you add refeeds into the equation - especially not out of fucking control refeeds (YES I'm stressed, 'scuse my language).

Question: Now why would I appear to need such a big deficit?

Answer: BONE, and other bits and pieces that are NOT MUSCLE.

Muscle is the only tissue that burns a significant number of calories, right? (right? ) Organs are in there, burning and smouldering, but for the blasting furnace, you need MUSCLE. Now, for my height and weight, I have proportionately LESS actual muscle than someone shorter than me but a similar weight and bf %, right? Since I also happen to have BIG BONES. THESE are what's taking up so much weight.

So the shorter person could eat more than I could and still cut at the same rate.

Am I making sense here?

 

[SteelWeaver]

Bwaaa haaa haa haa

Spatts - I think you just brightened my whole panic-stricken, stressed out, fat-n'-bloated, suckling pig day.

But you have to admit I have a point, right?

I mean, you gotta think there's something wrong when your 5'11" 176 lb body WILL NOT let go of a single ounce on 1800 calories a day, with 1.25 hrs weights and 1 hour cardio thrown in most days ....

Mmm, someone once posted this 20 almonds a day diet - think I'll go check that out LMAO

 

[rez]

u know stressing about it can make u hold the fat more. There is science behind that theory...
but maybe the best thing would be to give your body a break (ie cut down training for a week) keep cals the same, and DONT have cheat days.
since i have no more cheat days i am in control and feel a lot better about my diet.
giving your body ample rest may be the key to your fat loss

 

[JJFigure]

My very large boned brother has the same problem. It's really hard for him to lose weight - incredibly hard. He has to eat fewer calories than I do when I'm cutting to lose weight (like 500 calories/day fewer) and he's much larger than I am, so you'd think it would be the opposite.

I don't know what to say - I feel for you. Just keep lifting and put on as much muscle as you can.

 

[MS]

I agree, given your likely bone free LBM, that 1800cals per day may be too high. You also might want to get your insulin sensitivity measured. Between your inability to lose fat like you think you should, and your tendency to hold more fat around your abs, you may be slightly insulin resistant or have PCOS etc....If this is the case you may have to change your diet plan. But the only way to find out is to have a big pig-out and have someone measure your insulin and glucose levels over the next 2-3 hours. Not an easy task. Otherwise just drop the refeeds, or limit them to the last 4-6 weeks of your diet, and then just one or two meals per week. You really don't need refeeds (except for psych reasons) until you're already pretty lean (well under 15% bf for most women).

 

[SteelWeaver]

Ah HAH! So I was RIGHT! I've been thinking about this a lot - you know, how to calculate appropriate calorie numbers, especially considering how I struggle to get the fat off. I was thinking I might have ruined my metabolism permanently as a teen with lots of drugs and various other unsavoury behaviours, but maybe I was just born like this ... how many people do you know who were 12.5 lbs at birth? LOL

However, I have never been (and never will be) anywhere near obese, so at least I don't have that sort of history to deal with.

I'm doing 1700 cals on non-training days and 1800 on training days - I'm going to see how this goes for a week or so, then drop them as needed. (yeah I know, I should monitor for longer, but I don't have time)

And *maybe* keep the refeeds in as a SMALL, controlled carb-up. I'll see how I feel later this week.

Umm, MS - I take it that test needs BLOOD. And a doctor

Thanks for those insights ladies

 

[VeggieLifterChick]

Steel,

Interesting thing has happened to me lately. I ended up eating an average of 1400 kcal for a little over a week and I got weak as hell on my lifts and my fat loss stopped. Lately i have been eating much more and Ithink its accelerating again. Is it possible that you arent eating enough? Having to drop your calories so much seems drastic, maybe its a sign that you are in the starvation mode?

 

[MS]

I hardly think 1800 cals is a drastic reduction, especially given the frequency and size of her refeeds. She has also just started her diet, so it's not really the same as someone who stalls after months of dieting. At a guess I would say I have more bone-free LBM than SteelWeaver. I start my cutting diet at 1600 cals per day and gradually increase those cals to 1800-2000 by the last few weeks of my precomp diet. I am also increasing the frequency and size of my refeeds during this time (from none in the beginning to 2-3 meals per week). So I agree, that you need to eat enough, but you can get away with more severe restrictions in the beginning as long as you ease up the leaner you get. This may also help to kick-start fatloss. Sometimes our bodies don't respond to subtle changes in diet and you need to hit your metabolism over the head with a 2x4 to get it's attention.

Of course everyone is different.

 

[Millie]

MS,

I have read you say that before, about starting out with lower calories and gradually increasing them as the diet progresses.

I have a question about this though. The basic concept is that you should be eating at 10x - 12x bodyweight or LBM to cut. So let's say you weigh 160lbs and start out with 1600 cals, which is 10x bodyweight. After 4 weeks you are down to 145lbs, but you have been increasing your calories slightly, so now you are eating 1800 cals, which is almost 12.5x bodyweight. After another 4 weeks, you are down to 135 lbs and you are eating 2000cals which is almost 15x bodyweight. Doesn't this go against the basic concept that your calories should be in the 10-12x bodyweight range to cut? Or am I way off?

 

[SteelWeaver]

lol. Well, I DID tell you before that I have a short memory ...

As usual though, you are right, and as far as opinions go, I haven't yet applied an opinion of yours that wasn't successful, so ...

But as far as what I was able to accomplish for my last comp., disappointed couldn't be more off - the surge of absolute and pure ecstacy and electricity and power and joy that I felt on the day was like nothing else I've ever experienced. I felt more accomplished on that day than ever before in my life.

And since then I have definitely put on even MORE noticeable size

HOWEVER, I am not one to rest on my laurels, so if drive for higher achievement comes across as disappointment, forgive me. I have high expectations of myself, and I haven't worked like a dog for 2 years only to ruin it all with a fucked up binge mentality and a lack of connection with my body. You are right again MS - this time I WILL get it right - I'm gonna stand on that stage in 9 and a half weeks with full, pumped muscles (including my newly developed ABS) bulging through taut SKIN, ..... and if you look closely, you'll see my heart bursting with pride




Now ... where's that 2 x 4 ... ?