Whats your thoughts on training to failure?

[knobler]

Hey guys curious on your thoughts, i know everyone is different and thinks differently. would be good especially if someones answer doesnt involve broscience.

like today i did a pull day and at the end i had a little gas left so i did a few more deads and then some cable curls till i litterally couldnt curl a 10 pound bar. not sure if that is good or bad but i just dont feel right knowing i left the gym without giving it everything i got

now obviously ill add some fractional plates to a couple lifts next time and see how i do then but regardless of if i do some extra or i cant quite finish up my routine i wanna go till im just shaking and drained and can barely lift my own bodyweight

 

[RickRock13]

In my opinion you should complete every set to failure. Its the last couple reps that take everything you got down to your toes that causes the growth to happen. With that said, that doesn't mean you train your session to failure. There comes a point of overtraining. General rule of thumb is high volume/ low intensity or low volume/ high intensity. Doing Hugh volume / high intensity will only lead to overtraining and possible injury in my experience

 

[bonacris]

I train failure to a point.. I won't go to failure if I think there is a chance of me getting hurt.. squats and deads I never do til failure because a sacrifice in.form could mean an injury.. its the same reason I never do one rep maxes.. my form is more important than my ego traps calves and chest I will always go til failure tho

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness

 

[stevesmi]

i agree with both posts above.

sums it up nicely

only thing i will add is if he you are doing 1 or 2 reps per set to failure then you aren't getting in a good workout.. you are most likely just working out with shitty form. think about it this way .. those skinny newbs at the gym with their wife beaters who throw on 225 and who need someone to help them lift it off their chests on the first rep are not doing a thing to get stronger. i know thats obvious but i see it so much at the gym that i hope some of those guys read this and cut that nonsense out

 

[gjohnson5]

Training to failure has been scientifically proven to be counter productive. Not only does this tax the CNS unnecessarily , but it also forces on to recover for a longer period of time. All of this has not been shown to increase strength or muscle mass in any way. Not to mention the nonfailure group in this study has higher concentrations of IGF-1 and testosterone PWO. In this study RF = failure group. NRF = non failure group

Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains

Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration.

 

[RickRock13]

Training to failure has been scientifically proven to be counter productive. Not only does this tax the CNS unnecessarily , but it also forces on to recover for a longer period of time. All of this has not been shown to increase strength or muscle mass in any way. Not to mention the nonfailure group in this study has higher concentrations of IGF-1 and testosterone PWO. In this study RF = failure group. NRF = non failure group

Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains

Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration.

Try putting that study in front of the countless guys that have blown up using DC training. DC is rest pause sets to failure on each and every set of every exercise. There are a lot of very experienced top level guys that don't train any other way than DC. Dante himself (inventor of DC) went from about 180 to 280 using his program. I've been doing it for a year, and honestly no other training style has given me more growth or strength

 

[knobler]

I guess it's really hard to say because no two bodies are the same. In my case specifically that made me think about this was that I did my workout, and I actually upped two lifts, including my dead lift by 5 pounds, and still killed that workout better than I previously have. I ate what I planned on before hand. Some protein, some healthy fats, and a mix of low and high gi carbs. I slept well that night and maybe those 2 being spot on helped the energy levels. So since I still felt pretty good afterwards I did another set of bw wide grip pull-ups, was only another 5 and a half. Then I did a set of light deadlift, 100 lbs, and then some curls till my arms were burnt out. Going right down till I was curling a 10 pound bar.

Would I have been better off just having finished my workout and left then or doing what I did. I went with a light wait as a burn out, and obviously as mentioned above I don't want to hiury myself doing a regular weight deadlift as I did when I was fresh to start my workout.

 

[stevesmi]

Training to failure has been scientifically proven to be counter productive. Not only does this tax the CNS unnecessarily , but it also forces on to recover for a longer period of time. All of this has not been shown to increase strength or muscle mass in any way. Not to mention the nonfailure group in this study has higher concentrations of IGF-1 and testosterone PWO. In this study RF = failure group. NRF = non failure group

Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains

Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration.

the problem with studies is that 'training for failure' can mean several things. i have an image of what it is. that study does as well.

is training to failure going balls to the wall everyday for an hour like a gorilla throwing around weights until your arms fall off? no, not to me.. but according to someone else that is what it means.

i'm saying get in a good workout when you go, break up those muscle fibers and get plenty of rest and eat a lot of healthy food and you will grow. if that is 'training to failure' then i guess that is what i'm endorsing

 

[Lighter Fighter]

I only go to failure on the last set of an exercise, so if im doing 4 exercises for chest with 4-6 sets each, i'll go to failure 4x in that whole chest workout.
If you go to failure on every set of an exercise, its counter productive, you'll just increase the need for recovery without any additional growth.

 

[goin on 4T]

Have a great spotter or your going to blow out something.