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What's ur definition of over training?!?!
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1handpullups
New member
Hey thanks for bringing up this important subject, since everyone is different its good to get as many perspectives and results from various people.
I've been natty whole life, but will be giving my muscles their first supercharge with a kickstarter after I cut here. I was looking this up 2 days ago and only found a couple threads.
Here were the results and my consensus.
1. Some people do the split, AM/PM for 6 days straight. People were advised, no matter what, or how often you are working out, only hit each muscle group no more than 2 times per week.
So, if you were working out 6 days in a row, for the most part, only intentionally workout each muscle at most every 3days.
2. Even then, people stated their opinion that its better to undertrain than overtrain.
3. One invaluable tip, that seems to make sense with me, even though I only have natural experience thusfar is when you work out frequency or more often the mass gains seem to be more than strength, and when you rest more the strength gains seem to be more than mass gains.
So, I really thought about this working out more, eating like no tomorrow can gain little amounts of mass each night which when added up, may equate to more mass in a shorter time period than resting a week.
Lets put numbers to this, just for kicks.
Lets say the mass rate for GUY#1
is something like
Day 1, you worked out legs, ate a bunch of food, every 2 hours waking up for a snack.
So, initial mass after day for you may be something like 2 ounces of leg meat.
Day 2, you may have worked out other bodyparts, and still ate like a madman in middle of night as you did and always do.
Night 2 he gained 1 Oz of leg meat
Day 3, same eating as usual, but its the third day after working out, and you only gain .4 ozs of leg meat.
Day 4, .3 Oz's leg meat
Day 5, .3 Oz's leg meat
Day 6, .2 Oz's Leg meat
Day 7 .05 Oz's Leg meat.
:Note, these numbers are made up, and are not even trying to be accurate. The ratios are kinda based on my theory of when the mass is being gained in accordance with you rest.
This is my theory on how the first few days after working a group out, how much you gain each night after. This supports what the poster had to say, along with connections I have made with my own results. I have been trying to figure this out for a few months and experimenting with frequency.
So, lets add
it up for 1 week.
In this theoretical example, the guy who rested his legs for 1 week gained 4.25 oz's of leg meat.
Lets look and see what might happen if he worked his legs out 2 times in that same week, using the same ratios but slightly adjusted the 2nd workout numbers for mysterious reasons.
Day 1, leg workout, eat, sleep.
Day 1 Leg gains, 2 Oz's
Day 2, eat sleep.
Day 2 Leg gains 1 Oz
Day 3 Eat Sleep.
Day 3 Leg Gains .4 Oz
Day 4 Leg workout #2 for the week, eat, sleep.
Day 4 Leg gains 1.5 oz's( 2 oz's changed to 1.5 because prior to workout he rested for 2 days instead 3 days, so he might not have rested enough and legs still had to catch up on a little recovery. This is my guess that the first workout for the week with slighty longer wait may have been fresher and a tiny bit more gains than the 2nd.
Day 5 Eat, Sleep
Day 5 Gains 1.3Oz's (adjusted from 1.5 because of the slightly less rest before htting it again)
Day 6 Eat, Sleep
Day 6 Gains .3 Oz's Leg Meat (adjusted again because of slightly less rest)
Day 7 Eat, Sleep
Day 7 Gains .25 Oz's (adjusted slightly from .3)
Lets add up the more frequency week for the same GUY#1
6.75 Oz's
So in my theory.
1 time a week, was 4.25 oz's
2 times a week was 6.75.
A difference of about 2 to 3, or 33% more mass.
Now for strength
Same GUY#1
Week 1
Deadlift x 4 reps (570lbs)
Squat x 7 reps (475lbs)
Week 2
Deadlift x reps (590)
Squat x 7 reps (490)
Now lets see for the style that does not allow grip, joints, nervous system, etc to get more rest by working out 2 times a week.
Week 1
Dealiftt x 3(less reps) reps (580)lbs (slightly less weight, but still gains)
Squat x 7 reps(475)
Week 2
Dealiftt x 3(less reps) reps (580)lbs (slightly less weight, but still gains)
Squat x 6 reps(less reps) (485)
So, you may still gain in both strength and mass in each workout juicing, but you may choose which you would like more of, by adjusting your workout frequency in theory.
In the next post I will post additional thoughts and experience relating to this strength vs mass, how bodybuilders train vs powerlifters, and what may help you determine whats better for you. As well as ask questions I have in the subject.
I've been natty whole life, but will be giving my muscles their first supercharge with a kickstarter after I cut here. I was looking this up 2 days ago and only found a couple threads.
Here were the results and my consensus.
1. Some people do the split, AM/PM for 6 days straight. People were advised, no matter what, or how often you are working out, only hit each muscle group no more than 2 times per week.
So, if you were working out 6 days in a row, for the most part, only intentionally workout each muscle at most every 3days.
2. Even then, people stated their opinion that its better to undertrain than overtrain.
3. One invaluable tip, that seems to make sense with me, even though I only have natural experience thusfar is when you work out frequency or more often the mass gains seem to be more than strength, and when you rest more the strength gains seem to be more than mass gains.
So, I really thought about this working out more, eating like no tomorrow can gain little amounts of mass each night which when added up, may equate to more mass in a shorter time period than resting a week.
Lets put numbers to this, just for kicks.
Lets say the mass rate for GUY#1
is something like
Day 1, you worked out legs, ate a bunch of food, every 2 hours waking up for a snack.
So, initial mass after day for you may be something like 2 ounces of leg meat.
Day 2, you may have worked out other bodyparts, and still ate like a madman in middle of night as you did and always do.
Night 2 he gained 1 Oz of leg meat
Day 3, same eating as usual, but its the third day after working out, and you only gain .4 ozs of leg meat.
Day 4, .3 Oz's leg meat
Day 5, .3 Oz's leg meat
Day 6, .2 Oz's Leg meat
Day 7 .05 Oz's Leg meat.
:Note, these numbers are made up, and are not even trying to be accurate. The ratios are kinda based on my theory of when the mass is being gained in accordance with you rest.
This is my theory on how the first few days after working a group out, how much you gain each night after. This supports what the poster had to say, along with connections I have made with my own results. I have been trying to figure this out for a few months and experimenting with frequency.
So, lets add
it up for 1 week.
In this theoretical example, the guy who rested his legs for 1 week gained 4.25 oz's of leg meat.
Lets look and see what might happen if he worked his legs out 2 times in that same week, using the same ratios but slightly adjusted the 2nd workout numbers for mysterious reasons.
Day 1, leg workout, eat, sleep.
Day 1 Leg gains, 2 Oz's
Day 2, eat sleep.
Day 2 Leg gains 1 Oz
Day 3 Eat Sleep.
Day 3 Leg Gains .4 Oz
Day 4 Leg workout #2 for the week, eat, sleep.
Day 4 Leg gains 1.5 oz's( 2 oz's changed to 1.5 because prior to workout he rested for 2 days instead 3 days, so he might not have rested enough and legs still had to catch up on a little recovery. This is my guess that the first workout for the week with slighty longer wait may have been fresher and a tiny bit more gains than the 2nd.
Day 5 Eat, Sleep
Day 5 Gains 1.3Oz's (adjusted from 1.5 because of the slightly less rest before htting it again)
Day 6 Eat, Sleep
Day 6 Gains .3 Oz's Leg Meat (adjusted again because of slightly less rest)
Day 7 Eat, Sleep
Day 7 Gains .25 Oz's (adjusted slightly from .3)
Lets add up the more frequency week for the same GUY#1
6.75 Oz's
So in my theory.
1 time a week, was 4.25 oz's
2 times a week was 6.75.
A difference of about 2 to 3, or 33% more mass.
Now for strength
Same GUY#1
Week 1
Deadlift x 4 reps (570lbs)
Squat x 7 reps (475lbs)
Week 2
Deadlift x reps (590)
Squat x 7 reps (490)
Now lets see for the style that does not allow grip, joints, nervous system, etc to get more rest by working out 2 times a week.
Week 1
Dealiftt x 3(less reps) reps (580)lbs (slightly less weight, but still gains)
Squat x 7 reps(475)
Week 2
Dealiftt x 3(less reps) reps (580)lbs (slightly less weight, but still gains)
Squat x 6 reps(less reps) (485)
So, you may still gain in both strength and mass in each workout juicing, but you may choose which you would like more of, by adjusting your workout frequency in theory.
In the next post I will post additional thoughts and experience relating to this strength vs mass, how bodybuilders train vs powerlifters, and what may help you determine whats better for you. As well as ask questions I have in the subject.
1handpullups
New member
Now here is my experience that correlates with what someone else had to say on the subject.
You have to ease into working out more frequently. You really do have to warm up, and ease into it.
When I started, I only danced off and on for minutes.
Now, somedays I dance the same way, for 1 hour, up to 3 times per day.(fast twitch sets)
Not everyday is the same. I do not dance for mass, I do it to be the best. But to be the best, you gotta alter the sport with what you know about muscles, and adjust accordingly. Eat as clean as possible. Bodybuilder style. 60 grams carbs, 30 grams protein within 1/2 hour of workout, 1 hour after that meal, and within 4 hours of working out, your 3rd after workout meal.
So the days I dance times, the eating may go like this. Dance and done with dance at 11:00am. Eat the 3 meals, wait for 1.5 hours after 3rd, then dance again, and again eat the after workout meals, except after the 2nd I go back and dance again. Then repeat the after workout meals. So, I burn a shit ton of calories, but In that 10 hours, I ate like 8-9 mini meals for something like 480 carbs and 240 grams of protein!
So, do you need to do this on a split workout day on juice? Yes. Workout in Am, eat your after workout meals, workout PM, after meals, and before you go to sleep, and during your sleep.
Okay, so I do leg workout, and sprints for a while instead of dancing. I give my legs time to heal, and gain a little mass. So, haven't danced in a couple weeks. I only get 1 workout. The next day I can go again since I eat like no tomorrow in my sleep too. The 3rd day I can probably dance 2 times if I wanted. It takes time to get your legs adjusted from Intense leg workouts and resting.
As far as leg rest.
If I give them rest, they want more rest. So when I do give my legs a couple/few days, that's when after days I'm more sore than the third day, and the fifth day they are just as sore as the fourth. It is strange considering if I had worked out every day I woul actually be less sore than if I rested.
Over the 1.25 years I put on 50lbs. 30 of that muscle. I still only worked out upper body every 5-8 days. Recently experiementing with natural highfrequency training, doing T boosting stuff like deadlifts, jumping deads, anything involving Farmers walking, grip exercises. Not much luck to be honest, but I cant seem to wait, and I am eating like crazy. I'm putting on muscle, but not much on strength. Which supports the theory.
Tips from strongmen, and grip trainers.
Some grip training people only train their grip every 10 days for the extra rest because of strength. This supports the theory above with the strength vs mass gains. So if you want more strength, wait longer. If you want more mass, carefully train more, eat more. Now, strength is different for everyone. There's 14 year old girls who bench more than me, so what?
I have been training for strength lately, and sometimes that's what you gotta do to gain more mass. Sacrifise the mass gains, and go heavy low reps, and do heavy negatives and tons of sets of negs. Do static holds on the whole stack of tricep pushdowns. Do handed dumbbell curls and try to do the negative as slow as possible, etc.....
That stuff wont help with mass gains, but when you are using more weight for your mass rep range, it will help more possibly than if you hadn't. So, strength training may be what you need to beat plateau, and it is sacrificing mass for a little bit, but you may gain that back by increased hypertrophy when you go back to mass rep range.
You have to ease into working out more frequently. You really do have to warm up, and ease into it.
When I started, I only danced off and on for minutes.
Now, somedays I dance the same way, for 1 hour, up to 3 times per day.(fast twitch sets)
Not everyday is the same. I do not dance for mass, I do it to be the best. But to be the best, you gotta alter the sport with what you know about muscles, and adjust accordingly. Eat as clean as possible. Bodybuilder style. 60 grams carbs, 30 grams protein within 1/2 hour of workout, 1 hour after that meal, and within 4 hours of working out, your 3rd after workout meal.
So the days I dance times, the eating may go like this. Dance and done with dance at 11:00am. Eat the 3 meals, wait for 1.5 hours after 3rd, then dance again, and again eat the after workout meals, except after the 2nd I go back and dance again. Then repeat the after workout meals. So, I burn a shit ton of calories, but In that 10 hours, I ate like 8-9 mini meals for something like 480 carbs and 240 grams of protein!
So, do you need to do this on a split workout day on juice? Yes. Workout in Am, eat your after workout meals, workout PM, after meals, and before you go to sleep, and during your sleep.
Okay, so I do leg workout, and sprints for a while instead of dancing. I give my legs time to heal, and gain a little mass. So, haven't danced in a couple weeks. I only get 1 workout. The next day I can go again since I eat like no tomorrow in my sleep too. The 3rd day I can probably dance 2 times if I wanted. It takes time to get your legs adjusted from Intense leg workouts and resting.
As far as leg rest.
If I give them rest, they want more rest. So when I do give my legs a couple/few days, that's when after days I'm more sore than the third day, and the fifth day they are just as sore as the fourth. It is strange considering if I had worked out every day I woul actually be less sore than if I rested.
Over the 1.25 years I put on 50lbs. 30 of that muscle. I still only worked out upper body every 5-8 days. Recently experiementing with natural highfrequency training, doing T boosting stuff like deadlifts, jumping deads, anything involving Farmers walking, grip exercises. Not much luck to be honest, but I cant seem to wait, and I am eating like crazy. I'm putting on muscle, but not much on strength. Which supports the theory.
Tips from strongmen, and grip trainers.
Some grip training people only train their grip every 10 days for the extra rest because of strength. This supports the theory above with the strength vs mass gains. So if you want more strength, wait longer. If you want more mass, carefully train more, eat more. Now, strength is different for everyone. There's 14 year old girls who bench more than me, so what?
I have been training for strength lately, and sometimes that's what you gotta do to gain more mass. Sacrifise the mass gains, and go heavy low reps, and do heavy negatives and tons of sets of negs. Do static holds on the whole stack of tricep pushdowns. Do handed dumbbell curls and try to do the negative as slow as possible, etc.....
That stuff wont help with mass gains, but when you are using more weight for your mass rep range, it will help more possibly than if you hadn't. So, strength training may be what you need to beat plateau, and it is sacrificing mass for a little bit, but you may gain that back by increased hypertrophy when you go back to mass rep range.
1handpullups
New member
The question I have is in regards to split training, AM/PM
1. Does anyone go to workout #1, then eat a meal or two, and go to workout #2 within say 2-3 hours of the last workout? Instead of AM/PM?
2. Does anyone here still workout over an hour at either of these workouts, or you guys pretty particular about the 1 hour thing? Its more about the nervous system thing I think, but I do rest more between sets now, and do exceed the hour everytime and was wondering what other people think about the 1 hour thing whether its because of nervous system or what. I used to be super focused, two min between sets, talk to no one, run outta the gym having already ate a banana, etc.........
Now I throw 1 banana peel out the left window and a half second later, my second banana peel out the right window just for giggles. Hopefully I don't get charged with manslaughter someday since my dna is on all the peels!
3. Do you still do full workouts at each one? What I mean by that, would you do the same repsXweightXSets than if you were not on a split, except now doing it 2 times in a day? If ya could describe intensity+sets+reps for each of your split workouts, and how each compares to if you were only working out the 1 time in the day. So, how much more are you working would you say?
1. Does anyone go to workout #1, then eat a meal or two, and go to workout #2 within say 2-3 hours of the last workout? Instead of AM/PM?
2. Does anyone here still workout over an hour at either of these workouts, or you guys pretty particular about the 1 hour thing? Its more about the nervous system thing I think, but I do rest more between sets now, and do exceed the hour everytime and was wondering what other people think about the 1 hour thing whether its because of nervous system or what. I used to be super focused, two min between sets, talk to no one, run outta the gym having already ate a banana, etc.........
Now I throw 1 banana peel out the left window and a half second later, my second banana peel out the right window just for giggles. Hopefully I don't get charged with manslaughter someday since my dna is on all the peels!
3. Do you still do full workouts at each one? What I mean by that, would you do the same repsXweightXSets than if you were not on a split, except now doing it 2 times in a day? If ya could describe intensity+sets+reps for each of your split workouts, and how each compares to if you were only working out the 1 time in the day. So, how much more are you working would you say?
If I'm recalling right, according to Polquin, When your at a good place in life, (feeling calm, relaxed, rested..ect) Upon waking after a good sleep, without getting out of bed, take your pulse. Write it down, When you get into training hard, every morning, take your pulse, if it gets 5 beats more per min then the orginal calm pulse, you are starting to over train.
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