What is it about Front Squats vs. Back Squats...

[anotherbutters]

These pictures helped me a lot: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/ElbowPosition.html in particular the bottom ones where the bar is not supported by the hands at all. I tried it with just the bar and that got me understanding where the bar should be on my shoulders and what it should feel like when it's in the right position. For me that's just clear of the collarbone and quite tight on the windpipe, but not overly restrictive on breathing.

After that it was a matter of getting the hands in place. I stretch my wrists beforehand. Arms out to the front and pull fingers back, with hand facing up, then down (2 stretches). I can get my hands at a 90 degree angle to my forearms, and they seem flexible enough. My problem is wrist stability when getting the bar out of the position at the end. I think the solution is to dump the bar, but that's not an option for me.

 

[blut wump]

In getting the bar down again you really only have a couple of options:
1) try to control it from your shoulders all the way to the floor, as you would if doing cleans for repetitions;
2) control part way down to some convenient resting point and then do a second stage to the floor, or to another resting point and repeat.

1 might be asking for trouble with pre-stressed wrists.
2 is what I tend to do if I've just failed a clean or barely attained a clean. I kind of control/slide it down my torso to my thighs and then do a second stage to the floor. It's not comfortable but I've never felt unsafe doing it.

 

[KhorneDeth]

These pictures helped me a lot: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/ElbowPosition.html .

In these pics it looks like the hands are placed an inch or two outside the shoulders. Is this proper form or simply a product of the example/model being a female without the broader shoulders of a male lifter? In fact, her hands look spaced out as wide (relative to her body) as mine are (relative to mine) when I'm doing military press. Not quite to the rings, but nearly.

Anyone have any good shots/vids of proper form in the hole? With no one at my gym even half-qualified to coach me, I'm left with what I can gather online for assistance. Thanks to all!

I'll try the hands free position on Friday for practice.

-- KhorneDeth

 

[Jim Ouini]

I just did'em today. I think I'm getting the hang of the rack. Well let's just say it'll be soon where my legs fail before the rack

I tried the hook grip but I think it forced my elbows down, since I don't have very good flexibility yet. The fingers barely under the bar works pretty well for me and able to keep my elbows up.

I also tried just the bar with arms fully extended and it damn near took out my windpipe.

As far as hand placement, I think I had mine just inside the first line (where lots of people have their hands for bench). I'm sure there's an optimum but I just did what felt comfortable and allowed me to keep my upper arm parallel to the floor. You may have to play around with it in order to find the right location for your flexibility and arm size/length.

 

[blut wump]

I did front squats again yesterday, too. I again tried the cross-over grip and my thumb tips kind of tucked in under the bar into those little hollows at the side of the base of the neck (that's the official Greek medical term, I believe). I was quite comfortable with that position and I think I'll be sticking to it for the exercise. I'm going to take a look at Svend Karlsen's video and see how he does them.

He does them cross-over which is probably what caused me to choose that grip. He does a bit more weight than I do but then he is wearing a belt.

 

[KhorneDeth]

The fingers barely under the bar works pretty well for me and able to keep my elbows up.

I also tried just the bar with arms fully extended and it damn near took out my windpipe.

Well, I went out for another session of front squats today, and I found both of these to be the case with me as well. Fingertips just sitting under the bar, elbows pressed up and slightly inward as well -- did wonders for stabilizing the rack I had going. Tri's were parallel to the floor through the whole movement, and I could put my ass nearly to my heels.

I even threw on 10s to each side, creating a massive, back-breaking, soul-shattering 65lb front squat! Actually, the added weight seemed to help a bit as the bar sat a little deeper in the fat on my shoulders, further stablizing me. (God, it hurts to admit that.) I think I might be able to work with this!

For shits and giggles, I also tried the hands-free position and damnit, anyone that can still breathe like that has to have a windpipe of pure steel. Literally couldn't do any more than a few reps at a time -- no air coming in! But at least I did get an idea of how the bar doesn't necessarily need your hands to stay balanced.

And on a slightly adventurous note, me and a couple new guys at the gym tried finding any way to make a "mock" squat rack. Tried setting it on the top rack of the bench apparatus, tried resting it across the dip station handles, we sat it on the back of the smith machine that stores the plates -- hell, we even thought we might be able to rig something with weight-belts to hang a bar from the pullup station!! Sadly, none of these were very practical or safe to try.

But it was kinda fun to try!

-- KhorneDeth

 

[Jim Ouini]

Glad you found a good solution. And the weights on fronts are pretty humbling, but I figure I'm training the movement here. At least that's what I tell myself

 

[Jim Ouini]

Well I got 185 x 5 on the fronts today, which is pretty good for me. Able to sit on my ankles and drive it up, wasn't too bad at all.

I now hold the bar with only my forefinger and middle finger, the rest are just flappin in the wind.

These really take the wind out of me, I think because you have to keep your core tight the whole time.

I hope it all bodes well for ATF back squats.

 

[Shepherd4]

When in the hole holding a bar in the clean rack position, I can only get the first half of my fingers, sometimes only 1/3 of my fingers around the bar. That's the reason for the hook grip idea, so you force your arms into that position. It actually does not hurt as much as it sonds. Take a hook grip, and the weight of the bar will force your arms into position. Try it, you can keep your elbows up easier too.

Not quite (although I allow for the possibility that you intentionally overgeneralized). The reason for the hook grip is to provide a more secure grip during the first and second pulls of the snatch and clean -- it has absolutely nothing to do with the positioning of your hands during the catch. In fact, plenty of lifters catch the bar in the clean position with only their fingertips under the bar to guide it into the niche between your delts and your clavicles. Once they recover from the clean, they will reset their grip (although not to a full hook grip) before the jerk.

For your purposes (i.e., front squatting, not cleaning), only having the first 1/2 or 1/3 of your fingers under the bar is plenty.

mpc

"Think of Tiger Woods out there hitting a bucket of balls. He's not swinging the 5-iron to get stronger -- he's swinging it to hone the groove. Hone the groove."