What is it about Front Squats vs. Back Squats...

[Jim Ouini]

...that allows me to sit deep in the hole? Is it just the position of the bar and center of gravity? or the upright position?

I was messing around for weeks trying to find a stance and foot position for ATG back squats and never got the form (granted I was in the middle of 5 x 5 so didn't have a whole lot of room for experimentation with light weights).

I do some front squats yesterday and I just naturally went down so my hams were completely slapped all over my calves. I was only at 95lbs and I was wearing my oly shoes but still, when I used to do front squats in the past with, say, 185 or so I still remember getting lower.

I'm wondering if there's any form cues I can take from FS that I can apply next time I try ATG back squats.

 

[thelion2005]

Fronts are highly recommended by "old school" purists.

I took a look at some pics and saw:
- heels on 2" block
- approximately 24" wide stance
- toes out
- bar very high - base of throat
- held by hands, wrists back, little wider than shoulders
- head up, eyes up
- smooth down with toes over knees
- down to below parallel
- smooth back up

The weight looked lighter.

Good luck.

 

[Madcow2]

Torso is more upright to keep weight centered - think about your levers (i.e. lower leg, upper leg, torso and how this translates to more clearance). The OL shoes don't hurt either believe me. That said, I honestly think the front squat is a good way to develop a rock steady bottom position and it will translate into the backsquat over time (actually, let me know after a few sessions how your pause squats and back squats are - I bet you are a lot more comfortable in the hole).

 

[Jim Ouini]

Torso is more upright to keep weight centered - think about your levers (i.e. lower leg, upper leg, torso and how this translates to more clearance). The OL shoes don't hurt either believe me.

Does this mean for ATG back squats my torso should be more upright? So looking at levers, if I keep the weight closer to my hips by keeping my torso upright the lever arm is shorter...I guess that's better.

That said, I honestly think the front squat is a good way to develop a rock steady bottom position and it will translate into the backsquat over time (actually, let me know after a few sessions how your pause squats and back squats are - I bet you are a lot more comfortable in the hole).

OK, I think I'll break the front squats out of my circuit so I can concentrate on them more. I'd really like to get good at these. Seriously, I can sit on my calves all day this way.

I think I read from either you or somewhere else that they weren't really meant to be done for high reps anyway, due to it's roots as an oly assistance exercise. I know I can't hold an appreciable amount of weight up for more than 5-8 reps.

The Lion: Thanks for the tips, appreciate it

 

[needtogetaas]

need more.

 

[super_rice]

hey jim, how are the oly shoes treating you? i got mine on monday, and i am the happiest lifter there is. it takes a bit of getting used to though, as i've found that my old shoes actually had a BACKWARDS lean.

 

[Madcow2]

Jim that was in reference to the OLs themselves not front squats. Technique deteriorates due to fatigue so high reps are avoided.

 

[Madcow2]

need more.

And WTF? This is the second time I've read this: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5126459&postcount=15

Not exactly sure what this means but it's in 2 threads that are unrelated to each other.

 

[Jim Ouini]

hey jim, how are the oly shoes treating you? i got mine on monday, and i am the happiest lifter there is. it takes a bit of getting used to though, as i've found that my old shoes actually had a BACKWARDS lean.

I love them. I got the a pair of the discontinued Adidas Ironworks. I'm not totally used to them yet but they are stable as hell (in addition to helping me with my limited ankle ROM). What kind did you get?

And I guess backward lean helps you drive off your heels?

Jim that was in reference to the OLs themselves not front squats. Technique deteriorates due to fatigue so high reps are avoided.e

Noticed that

Still, I get some shoulder fatigue or upper body fatigue with front squats (I definitely need to find that pocket to place the bar)

 

[Madcow2]

Elbows point straight forward and are held high, bar rests in fingers (maybe not as securely as we wish it to). So do that and then find where your front delt tied into your clavicle (i.e. should point directly backward). This is the slot, you keep your elbows high and the bar sits between here and your throat pretty much. Depending on your body you might have to really work to keep your elbows up and maintain the rack.