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Vertical Leap training thread
- Thread starter coolcolj
- Start date
gjohnson5
New member
Extra_Strong said:
You can choose to believe that while being an armchair quarterback....
The truth is that NBA stars were dunking starting out in 8th and 9th grade... This may not be before they touched weights , but I guarantee you this is before they squatted 400lb's...
I guess the better question is why do you not believe that building endurance increase vj
Extra_Strong
Well-known member
gjohnson5 said:
because i have done that kind of training.. my VJ was 33 work hard for about 2 months all it did was make my able to jump over and over very high.
These NBA basket ball players the you are talking about had natural ability to jump. and could already do it.. We are talking about increaseing vertical jump. I do not understand really what you are saying.. are you against weight training?? or what? Are long distance runners the fastes in the 100m ? look at all there endurance.
have you read this whole thread? do you know what it is about?
I think coolcolj is right on and this is a very good thread..
The weight training is to aid in the week points in your vj apility.
the i idea is to find your week point an improve it and some weight trainning can aid in this and help build speed. oly lifters have the best vj they do not do endurace work.. plus most basket ball player are really tall..
KOArtist
New member
gjohnson5 said:
I MEANT in the long term situation, obviously, as I said to try running every day for a MONTH and then retest your squat.
The only thing silly is believing that endurance training will help your VJ, which must be what you believe ("I guess the better question is why do you not believe that building endurance increase vj."
LOL, take "building endurance" to the extreme and what do you have? A bunch of slow-twitch marathon runner looking fools that can't jump for shit, although they may be able to repeat their 5 inch vert 1,000 times, lol.
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coolcolj
New member
I thought this was a very interesting post - that shows the stronger person has a higher vertical jump....
CMJ = counter movement jump (regular standing VJ)
Mio = vertical jump with a long pause
Jump pad numbers, so add 2-3 inches for regular stand and reach numbers.
team roster
http://www.usbasket.com/USAteam.asp?Team=6857
-------------------
Doctorron's VJ numbers of Dayton Jets IBL
This is a very initial study. Averages of 2 CMJ and 2 MIO jumps performed with 3 second holds 15 degrees above parallel. 20 players were measured with my jump pad. 12-15 players were DI. They range in age from 22-31. They have been practicing for 3 months and have played 4 games. We are 4-0 and scored 169 pts one game.
These are top notch players. Not NBA quality but very, very elite athletes based on skill and athleticism.
That is why some of these numbers surprised me. I want to take their numbers again after a 2 game road trip and 2 days rest to study their recovery. I will try and post their new numbers with minutes played over the weekend.
I didn't have time to do RA numbers but will soon. Names have not been provided to protect the innocent.
Height weight CMJ MIO
1. 6'10 235 22.5 19.5
2. 6'3" 195 30.6 28.3
3. 5'10" 175 28.7 26.0
4. 6'8" 225 23.0 22.8
5. 6'4" 245 28.9 27.4
6. 6'7" 175 28.0 27.4
7. 6'4" 190 28.7 24.0
8. 6'2" 180 32.0 27.9
9. 6'7" 262 21.8 21.8
10 6'2" 170 29.5 27.0
11. 6'3" 195 26.2 24.0
12. 6'1" 200 29.3 27.0
13. 6'4" 202 29.5 28.4
14. 6'6" 210 23.0 22.8
15. 6'4" 215 35.0 31.2
16. 6'7" 230 21.3 21.1
17. 6'2 1/2" 185 30.2 28.1
18. 6'8" 268 19.9 19.6
19. 6'1" 201 26.4 24.9
I am interested im observations reguarding reactive ability, height, weight etc.
Only 19 were tested, one was injured.
JackM
« Reply #2 on: May 6th, 2005, 1:17pm »
The jump pad measures the distance between the toes and the floor correct?? If so you'll need to add a few inches ot those measurements to come up with what you would get from a vertec. They still are pretty average though.
doctorron
« Reply #3 on: May 6th, 2005, 3:40pm »
I figured about 2" more on the vertec but haven't measured it yet. This may not surprise anyone, but the top 10 verts average much more playing time and production with 2 exceptions, and the bottom ten verts display much less athleticism and playing time with 3 exceptions.
Are you surprised by the lack of difference in MIO and CMJ in alot of these players. By far our highest vert on the jumpad 35" displays the most Reactive ability and with his efficient skills is the leader in on court production.
CoolColJ
« Reply #4 on: May 6th, 2005, 6:25pm »
I myself only had a 1.5 inch difference between my CMJ and Mio jump a few months back, but I think its better now. I know JackM commented on the fact I probbaly wasn't recruiting my hammies and plantar flexors as much, quad and glute dominant. ie less reactive.
I should restest on Sunday
But Yeah as far as the numbers go, I would think that the CNS speeds being such big part of what makes an athlete tick explosively and fluidity wise, it doesn't surprise me the best jumper there would be the best overall player, depending on his brain type that is.. Did you do any brain type tests or have the data?
Also noticed that the 2 best jumpers were also the most reactive. 4-5 inch difference betwen CMJ and MIO
ie using more of their resources effeciently
But yeah considering how BBall players do jump a lot it did suprise me a bit. I think the fact that BBall does utilise a lot of low intensity running, that would definitely erode the explosive capacities of some players.
I think the 2 best jumpers could jump even higher with some strength work, while the rest would need more reactive work and maybe technique and recruitment work.
Ant
« Reply #5 on: May 8th, 2005, 05:47am »
What kind of off court training are these guys doing at the moment doctorron?
« Reply #6 on: May 9th, 2005, 1:01pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
they went through 4 weeks of traditional strength training. I am part of the team medical staff and am assisting in their training. Once the season has started they are doing only basketball for the past 4-6 weeks. I am struggling for more control in the performance dept. I am doing EMS on a few of the players at the moment.
I was just surprised at the lack of reactive ability of most of the guys, even the ones who would have 30 plus inches on a vertec.
The 35 inch jump pad CMJ player has by far the most reactivity in his CNS and is the highest VJ tested. A lay person could see the spring and reactivity of this jump. It looks effortless and does not appear to be muscled in any way. Just based on these players, reactivity does not appear to be enhanced by just playing hoops.
Ant
« Reply #7 on: May 9th, 2005, 2:10pm »
What are the strength levels for these guys like? There obviously has to be a good strength base in order to build reactivity off of - can't build up to power absorption/production without the strength to take in the force.
CoolColJ
« Reply #8 on: May 9th, 2005, 5:52pm »
how high does the 35 inch jump pad CMJ player jump on the vertec?
doctorron
« Reply #9 on: Today at 11:03am »
Ant, Most of these gyys strength levels are average to poor. Weight training doesnt appear to have been a major part of half the teams training. Our 35 inch man has more than adequate strength levels.
CoolCoJ I would estimate his vertical on a vertec at 38 inches.
One other thing to note. These players are almost all incredibly reactive off of one foot. I am not sure if anyone cannot dunk off of one foot. But some of the guys in the 6'2", 26-29 vert range look like vince carter off of one foot. Some really impressive dunks
CoolColJ
« Reply #10 on: Today at 5:48pm »
See the stronger guy jumps the highest off a stand and 2 legs
DoctorRon, is the 35 inch CMJ guy good at both one and 2 leg jumps equally, standing and running?
All the others are relying on their natural born reactive ability to jump off one leg. Just like all those Slam Nation guys and just about 95% of all BBall players...
But then why are their CMJ jumps so close to their Mio jumps?
CMJ = counter movement jump (regular standing VJ)
Mio = vertical jump with a long pause
Jump pad numbers, so add 2-3 inches for regular stand and reach numbers.
team roster
http://www.usbasket.com/USAteam.asp?Team=6857
-------------------
Doctorron's VJ numbers of Dayton Jets IBL
This is a very initial study. Averages of 2 CMJ and 2 MIO jumps performed with 3 second holds 15 degrees above parallel. 20 players were measured with my jump pad. 12-15 players were DI. They range in age from 22-31. They have been practicing for 3 months and have played 4 games. We are 4-0 and scored 169 pts one game.
These are top notch players. Not NBA quality but very, very elite athletes based on skill and athleticism.
That is why some of these numbers surprised me. I want to take their numbers again after a 2 game road trip and 2 days rest to study their recovery. I will try and post their new numbers with minutes played over the weekend.
I didn't have time to do RA numbers but will soon. Names have not been provided to protect the innocent.
Height weight CMJ MIO
1. 6'10 235 22.5 19.5
2. 6'3" 195 30.6 28.3
3. 5'10" 175 28.7 26.0
4. 6'8" 225 23.0 22.8
5. 6'4" 245 28.9 27.4
6. 6'7" 175 28.0 27.4
7. 6'4" 190 28.7 24.0
8. 6'2" 180 32.0 27.9
9. 6'7" 262 21.8 21.8
10 6'2" 170 29.5 27.0
11. 6'3" 195 26.2 24.0
12. 6'1" 200 29.3 27.0
13. 6'4" 202 29.5 28.4
14. 6'6" 210 23.0 22.8
15. 6'4" 215 35.0 31.2
16. 6'7" 230 21.3 21.1
17. 6'2 1/2" 185 30.2 28.1
18. 6'8" 268 19.9 19.6
19. 6'1" 201 26.4 24.9
I am interested im observations reguarding reactive ability, height, weight etc.
Only 19 were tested, one was injured.
JackM
« Reply #2 on: May 6th, 2005, 1:17pm »
The jump pad measures the distance between the toes and the floor correct?? If so you'll need to add a few inches ot those measurements to come up with what you would get from a vertec. They still are pretty average though.
doctorron
« Reply #3 on: May 6th, 2005, 3:40pm »
I figured about 2" more on the vertec but haven't measured it yet. This may not surprise anyone, but the top 10 verts average much more playing time and production with 2 exceptions, and the bottom ten verts display much less athleticism and playing time with 3 exceptions.
Are you surprised by the lack of difference in MIO and CMJ in alot of these players. By far our highest vert on the jumpad 35" displays the most Reactive ability and with his efficient skills is the leader in on court production.
CoolColJ
« Reply #4 on: May 6th, 2005, 6:25pm »
I myself only had a 1.5 inch difference between my CMJ and Mio jump a few months back, but I think its better now. I know JackM commented on the fact I probbaly wasn't recruiting my hammies and plantar flexors as much, quad and glute dominant. ie less reactive.
I should restest on Sunday
But Yeah as far as the numbers go, I would think that the CNS speeds being such big part of what makes an athlete tick explosively and fluidity wise, it doesn't surprise me the best jumper there would be the best overall player, depending on his brain type that is.. Did you do any brain type tests or have the data?
Also noticed that the 2 best jumpers were also the most reactive. 4-5 inch difference betwen CMJ and MIO
ie using more of their resources effeciently
But yeah considering how BBall players do jump a lot it did suprise me a bit. I think the fact that BBall does utilise a lot of low intensity running, that would definitely erode the explosive capacities of some players.
I think the 2 best jumpers could jump even higher with some strength work, while the rest would need more reactive work and maybe technique and recruitment work.
Ant
« Reply #5 on: May 8th, 2005, 05:47am »
What kind of off court training are these guys doing at the moment doctorron?
« Reply #6 on: May 9th, 2005, 1:01pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
they went through 4 weeks of traditional strength training. I am part of the team medical staff and am assisting in their training. Once the season has started they are doing only basketball for the past 4-6 weeks. I am struggling for more control in the performance dept. I am doing EMS on a few of the players at the moment.
I was just surprised at the lack of reactive ability of most of the guys, even the ones who would have 30 plus inches on a vertec.
The 35 inch jump pad CMJ player has by far the most reactivity in his CNS and is the highest VJ tested. A lay person could see the spring and reactivity of this jump. It looks effortless and does not appear to be muscled in any way. Just based on these players, reactivity does not appear to be enhanced by just playing hoops.
Ant
« Reply #7 on: May 9th, 2005, 2:10pm »
What are the strength levels for these guys like? There obviously has to be a good strength base in order to build reactivity off of - can't build up to power absorption/production without the strength to take in the force.
CoolColJ
« Reply #8 on: May 9th, 2005, 5:52pm »
how high does the 35 inch jump pad CMJ player jump on the vertec?
doctorron
« Reply #9 on: Today at 11:03am »
Ant, Most of these gyys strength levels are average to poor. Weight training doesnt appear to have been a major part of half the teams training. Our 35 inch man has more than adequate strength levels.
CoolCoJ I would estimate his vertical on a vertec at 38 inches.
One other thing to note. These players are almost all incredibly reactive off of one foot. I am not sure if anyone cannot dunk off of one foot. But some of the guys in the 6'2", 26-29 vert range look like vince carter off of one foot. Some really impressive dunks
CoolColJ
« Reply #10 on: Today at 5:48pm »
See the stronger guy jumps the highest off a stand and 2 legs
DoctorRon, is the 35 inch CMJ guy good at both one and 2 leg jumps equally, standing and running?
All the others are relying on their natural born reactive ability to jump off one leg. Just like all those Slam Nation guys and just about 95% of all BBall players...
But then why are their CMJ jumps so close to their Mio jumps?
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And I would imagine that with the right genes, you're already flyijng high and then you through in just a little lower body resistance training (standard stuff) say in college and their body's again can take better advantage of this extra strength than a normie's could.
The irony is that guys with crazy genes probably see their incredible leaping ability as something they earned by working out really hard. In reality, if they saw what us mortals went through to jump inches less, they would realize just how easily they had it and I hope at least appreciate their natural universe given physical gifts.
The irony is that guys with crazy genes probably see their incredible leaping ability as something they earned by working out really hard. In reality, if they saw what us mortals went through to jump inches less, they would realize just how easily they had it and I hope at least appreciate their natural universe given physical gifts.
rbtrout
New member
Don't forget the one thing that really matters - actually jumping. I used to be able to stand flat footed under the rim (reg. height) and slam 2 handed at 6' tall and 125. All I did was play bball, lift weights and eat (in that order, ususally). Now at 225 I can just grap the rim. Part of the 'jump training' should include going outside on a bball court and just trying to grab the rim. If anyone went through bball in high school/college, jumping for about 30 minutes was part of the pre-season training.
I still play bball every Saturday - usually in 2 different cities for about 2 hours a shot. After all of the weight training over the last 4 years, I can just grab the rim, but no one, I mean no one can take the ball from me unless I want them to and no one moves me very easily. I can still shoot quite well, too.
I still play bball every Saturday - usually in 2 different cities for about 2 hours a shot. After all of the weight training over the last 4 years, I can just grab the rim, but no one, I mean no one can take the ball from me unless I want them to and no one moves me very easily. I can still shoot quite well, too.
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