Soreness dilemma.

[TerraNoble]

After almost 5 yeasr of weight training and running I had a two months hiatus due some health problems.

I got back in the swing of things and start to work out again 2 days ago.

Now I have a bad soreness and I was wondering if I shouldwork out thru the soreness or wait a few more days to ease up.

thanks
'terra

 

[SSAlexSS]

After almost 5 yeasr of weight training and running I had a two months hiatus due some health problems.

I got back in the swing of things and start to work out again 2 days ago.

Now I have a bad soreness and I was wondering if I shouldwork out thru the soreness or wait a few more days to ease up.

thanks
'terra

Work out rhrough soreness. It will disappear if you work through it.

Remember you can be sored, but noty overtrained. You may be overtrained but you arent sore.

Working through soreness can make the musclke recover faster. Take it or leave it. That what research has determined.

 

[aurelius]

to TERRANOBLE

Check the thread "Bodybuilders are stronger than powerlifters" before taking any advice form SSAlexS.

Could you show us your research, Alex?


Here´s mine:

"There are two basic mechanisms that explain how exercise initiates muscle damage. One is associated with the disturbance of metabolic function, while the other refers to the mechanical disruption of the muscle cell. Whenever muscle soreness occurs, one should immediatley alter the training program because pursuing it at the same level will bring the strength trainer one step closer to overtraining.
...Both mechanisms of muscle damage are related to muscle fibers that have been stressed slightly, and when this occurs, they quickly return to normal length wihtout injury. If the stress is sever, the muscle becomes traumatized. Discomfort sets in after the first 24 to 48 hours.
...For years, lacitc acid buildup was considered the main cause of muscle soreness. Research has discovered, however, the the actual cuase results from an influx of calcium ions into the muscle."



THis is from Tudor Bompa´s Serious Strength Training. He recommends 3 to 5 days rest before returning to the gym. THese calcium ions are catabolic when they remain in the muscle and cause soreness. You have overtrained and need rest.

 

[gymtime]

I have to disagree with aurelius. If I waited 3-5 days every time I got sore, I'd only be able to work out once a week. As long as you're allowing enough rest between workouts, it's ok to work through the soreness. I think once your body gets used to lifting again, you won't be sore as much.

And no, I have no scientific reasearch to back this up, only my experience. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Screwball]

I agree with Aurelius...

Gymtime, I believe the soreness is within a specific muscle group. Hence, chest every 3-5 days, quads every 3-5 days, etc... If a muscle is sore then it's best to postpone training until the muscle is sufficiently healed. There is nothing wrong with training a muscle if there is still a "little" lingering soreness. However, I believe in the long run muscle gains in size and strength can be maximized if a muscle is allowed to completely heal before training it again. I can't regurgitate the actual scientific studies but research has shown that training the entire body with intense, varied training once or twice a week has been the best way to maximize muscle growth and strength. Overtraining (along with deficient diet) is holding back a huge majority of trainers today from maximizing their gains.

- Screwball

 

[SSAlexSS]

Re: to TERRANOBLE

Check the thread "Bodybuilders are stronger than powerlifters" before taking any advice form SSAlexS.

Could you show us your research, Alex?


Here´s mine:

"There are two basic mechanisms that explain how exercise initiates muscle damage. One is associated with the disturbance of metabolic function, while the other refers to the mechanical disruption of the muscle cell. Whenever muscle soreness occurs, one should immediatley alter the training program because pursuing it at the same level will bring the strength trainer one step closer to overtraining.
...Both mechanisms of muscle damage are related to muscle fibers that have been stressed slightly, and when this occurs, they quickly return to normal length wihtout injury. If the stress is sever, the muscle becomes traumatized. Discomfort sets in after the first 24 to 48 hours.
...For years, lacitc acid buildup was considered the main cause of muscle soreness. Research has discovered, however, the the actual cuase results from an influx of calcium ions into the muscle."



THis is from Tudor Bompa´s Serious Strength Training. He recommends 3 to 5 days rest before returning to the gym. THese calcium ions are catabolic when they remain in the muscle and cause soreness. You have overtrained and need rest.

When you train you initiate a host of metabolic processes. Additional training can clear up those painfull soreness causing chemicals. Plus after you train your muscle starts to recover. 1 + 1 recovery sessions = 2... 2 as good.

Some people train chest 8 times per week for max gains, it works. Obviously you arent recovered enough, that is why you need to taper off.


3-5 days for muscle grioup to wait to recover, or going to he gym every 3-5 times per week?

Stop reading Mentzer's idiocy. He is a lunatic from a galaxy far far away. - Not my idea, somone elses idea. I cant come up with such original stuff.... HHAHAHAH


Working a muscle that is sore - even one that has been injured - will cause the muscle to recover much more rapidly that resting the muscle.

That has been concluded during decades of research. And validated by countless athletes.


take it or leave it.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Re: I agree with Aurelius...

Gymtime, I believe the soreness is within a specific muscle group. Hence, chest every 3-5 days, quads every 3-5 days, etc... If a muscle is sore then it's best to postpone training until the muscle is sufficiently healed. There is nothing wrong with training a muscle if there is still a "little" lingering soreness. However, I believe in the long run muscle gains in size and strength can be maximized if a muscle is allowed to completely heal before training it again. I can't regurgitate the actual scientific studies but research has shown that training the entire body with intense, varied training once or twice a week has been the best way to maximize muscle growth and strength. Overtraining (along with deficient diet) is holding back a huge majority of trainers today from maximizing their gains.

- Screwball

to maximize strenth you need to train 6 days MINIMUM.

One of the best strength athletes (hungarian) train 6 days oper week UP TO 5 WORKOUTS PER DAY!



Once time per week is bad/slow for gains. On myself I saw that I for biggest deadlifting strength increase I must train 2x per week (maybe more... I havent tested more often lifting. I read too much Mentzer bull )

 

[gymtime]

Re: I agree with Aurelius...

Gymtime, I believe the soreness is within a specific muscle group. Hence, chest every 3-5 days, quads every 3-5 days, etc... If a muscle is sore then it's best to postpone training until the muscle is sufficiently healed. There is nothing wrong with training a muscle if there is still a "little" lingering soreness. However, I believe in the long run muscle gains in size and strength can be maximized if a muscle is allowed to completely heal before training it again. I can't regurgitate the actual scientific studies but research has shown that training the entire body with intense, varied training once or twice a week has been the best way to maximize muscle growth and strength. Overtraining (along with deficient diet) is holding back a huge majority of trainers today from maximizing their gains.

- Screwball

Screwball, just to clarify, I've always been a believer in one muscle group per week for training. So I'll always have 6-7 rest between specific muscle groups. However, I read the original question to mean, "if I'm still sore from doing chest on monday, is it ok to do back on wednesday?" In other words, if one bodypart is still sore after a couple days, is it ok to go work a different one today? In that case, I think it's fine.

However, I wouldn't recommend that anyone work chest, for example, with only two days rest and especially if they were still experiencing soreness.

I hope that made at least some sense. It's been a long ass week.

 

[bignate73]

heres what some say:

"Initially, you should avoid any vigorous activity that increases pain, though you may work the unaffected areas of your body. By exercising unaffected areas or by performing low-impact aerobic activities such as biking or walking at a moderate pace, blood flow can be increased to the affected muscles, which may help diminish soreness. "

"Other measures include applying ice, gently stretching, and massaging the affected muscles, which may be helpful for some people and poses little risk if done sensibly. Also, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medications like aspirin or ibuprofen may reduce the soreness temporarily, though they won't actually speed healing. These medications are available over the counter, and they can be prescribed by physicians in greater strengths. And there is some evidence that vitamin C may decrease soreness. "

"Finally, you should allow the soreness, weakness, and stiffness to subside thoroughly before vigorously exercising the affected muscles again, and don't forget to stretch and warm up before your targeted activity. If your pain persists longer than about 7 days or increases despite these measures, consult your physician. "

-Captain Ross is a physical therapist and instructor in the department of biology at the United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. He is a member of the Orthopedic section of the American Physical Therapy Association.

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When DOMS has been caused, later exercise has been shown to reduce pain scores for some time after, but not to effect the overall time scale of recovery. During the period in which strength is likely to be reduced, any exercise should be performed at low intensities. Anti-inflammatories can reduce the pain temporarily, but again do not effect the course. Massage of an inflamed swollen muscle should help the symptoms and some studies support this but without any long term benefit. Gentle stretching may prevent adhesions from occurring in the muscle and speed recovery but there is no scientific evidence to support this.

Summary DOMS should be avoided not because of the risk of permanent damage - there is no evidence of this - but because it requires a period of rest afterwards to avoid risking permanent damage by tearing a weakened muscle. It can be avoided by introducing eccentric work gradually - remember that protection is conferred within 24-48 hours. It should be treated by reducing exercise workloads considerably to light exercise only, incorporating gentle stretching to reduce the symptoms.

-Dr. Tom Crisp FitPro


i wasnt able to find anything that said, keep on training, other than at light intensity. other than that...let the pain subside or heal up thoroughly before hitting it hard again.

 

[NateDogg]

If I get sore the same night, or early the next morning after a workout, is that bad. Let me rephrase that, how much of a delay before soreness does there have to be before it would be called DOMS? Also, often, after absolute balls out intensity in a workout (legs two days ago) I may be sore for 4 or 5 days. Is that then considered DOMS no matter when it started?

TIA,

ND