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RESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic
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Q For Mr X

Hey dude!
You seem to know your stuff about diets and what not
what kind of diet would u suggest to someone like me who trains in thai and kick boxing sso i'm looking for sports performance whilst keeping the fat off me

I cant see myself doing a CKD or is it something u would get used to?

Thanks
 
Babyfaced Assassin said:
Hey dude!
You seem to know your stuff about diets and what not
what kind of diet would u suggest to someone like me who trains in thai and kick boxing sso i'm looking for sports performance whilst keeping the fat off me

I cant see myself doing a CKD or is it something u would get used to?

Thanks

If your activity level is high - which I assume it is - experience has shown me that low or even moderate carbs do not usually work to your advantage. If performance (100%) is an issue, I suggest looking at 50%carbs/40%protein/10%fat.

Mr.X
 
Babyfaced Assassin said:
ok sounds good to me
if i stick to low glycemic carbs save post workout i should be ok with keeping fat to a minimum?

Exactly...have low-gi throughout the day and try to stick w/ high-gi around the workout.

Mr.X
 
what do u think the maximum carbs should be per meal?
i'm weighing in at around 140lbs and sticking to a weight class, dont mind gaining a bit say 5lbs max
 
Babyfaced Assassin said:
what do u think the maximum carbs should be per meal?
i'm weighing in at around 140lbs and sticking to a weight class, dont mind gaining a bit say 5lbs max

If you're doing 50p/40c/10f @140, you're looking at about a weight x 15-18 energy expenditure if you train hard, take the higher side and go w/ wx16 on training days, that's 2200.
275g carbs per day
220g protein per day
30g fat per day

Per meal (assuming 6 meals) that would be:
45g carbs/36g protein/5g fat

I would assume you could have a few meals w/ 20+carbs and concentrate a large portion of high-gi carbs around the workout.

Mr.X
 
tip

Right carbs are very protein sparing and your quickest route to GOOD energy (energy-cortisol=good energy). Any type of physical activity WILL BURN GLUCOSE wether you get that glucose from your carbs or you get that glucose from your protein or you get that glucose from your actual muscle tissue you will get the glucose. i could eat hi gi stuff ALL day and be 100% fine as long as A. I didnt give into the hunger incured through low blood sugar roller-coastering and B. stayed within my caloric limit. In fact if my diet was 99% carb and .5% protein and .5% fat and all the carb i ate was like pure table sugar and i didnt die in a week or two from no protein and fat then i could really lose some weight as long as I was under my caloric expenditure. That is if i could somehow determine when i REALLY needed to eat between when my blood had just been sucked dry from an insulin surge. A slow release GI will fill up your glycogen stores before it will fill up your fat and in an active person glycogen stores are really ALWAYS needing to be a lil fuller, save for off days but in a good two hour workout you'll suck yor glycogen stores down a great deal, almost to nothing. You can only hold about 200-400g of sugar in muscle glycogen stores. This means 2 things 1. If I'm burning the stuff throught the day AND im active overflowing wont be really a problem less your hitting 450+ carbs (others can hold more or less depends on your lean muscle mass) and B. As long as you keep the carbs low GI they will relase at a rate as slow as you burn the carbs off (fiber helps with this). I added carbs to my diet and reduced my protein a lil to 30% of my diet (WHAT CARBS UP PROTEIN DOWN?!?!) and acutally got leaner and built more muscle because energy was more readily avaible instead of having to be made with that nasty hormone cortisol in huge amounts all the time. Workouts got better energy improved ect. I maintain now about a 40-50% carbs daily and i just stay within my caloric bounds. (note: carbs are really anabolic too good for building muscle). See the hormones insulin and cortisol and glucagon and Gh are all relative to each other in differnt ways, without going into to much detail the point is this. You will burn as many calories as u burn those calories will be of the macronutrient ratio you ate or close to it (this can be altered but for performance purposes not ideal) example as insulin goes down fats are utilized more and as less glucose is avaible protein is used to create more ect ect. People get this weird fear of carbs like they belive somehow if they eat carbs they wont burn off the fat they eat, thats not true at all. If they are within caloric bounds they will HAVE to burn off the fat they ate. Carbs I see as having some of the best benefits (good energy, anabolic, protein sparing, aids recovry, ect ect) They can be eatin in high amounts as long as the two T's are followed and thats type and timing, I eat carbs throught the day but i eat them heaviest at breakfast and after workout. Fats have no guesswork with them cause u arent spiking inuslin levels by eating them but at the same time they dont provide energy the same way a carb does. Mr. X said something about 10% fat, this i belive is to low regardless of carb intake. At that level your testosterone levels are gonna be taking a major hit, not really ideal. A good ratio is 45-50 carbs this should provide enough glycogen to supply you through the day\workouts 20-25 fats this will give you something to save your glycogen stores for when you really need them like during training and then really no more than 30 percent protein above and beyond that you'll just pee a lot, have gas, and burn it like you would a carb. What i like to do is kinda alternate by eating a meal with a good amoutn of carbs (breakfast) then my mid morning meal one more focusing on fats since by that time my insulin levels have lowered a bit and putting some EFA's in me will then leave my body on burning less glucose meaning more glycogen saved for when you need it. So obviously in conclusion you should be deathly afraid of carbs because they are just little devils put on this earth to make us fat and have no nutritional value beyond that. (this is for anyone who didnt read the whole thing and thought they could get away with the last line)
 
Last edited:
Re: tip

Nathan101085 said:
i could eat hi gi stuff ALL day and be 100% fine as long as A. I didnt give into the hunger incured through low blood sugar roller-coastering and B. stayed within my caloric limit. In fact if my diet was 99% carb and .5% protein and .5% fat and all the carb i ate was like pure table sugar and i didnt die in a week or two from no protein and fat then i could really lose some weight as long as I was under my caloric expenditure. .

LMFAO!! First off, if you ate as you proposed above, 99% carb, you'd lose weight alright........., you'd lose all your MUSCLE and leave MOST of the fat on your body!!!!! Not the kind of results people want when they desire to "weigh less".....they usually mean less fat, not a walking nightmare of a body composition!

Besides, how the hell can you support muscle preservation/growth and a positive nitrogen balance in the blood (needed for these actions) if you aren't eating any protein?

Needless to say, that's only 2 flaws in the reasoning above, but I'm too busy to go into any more detail. Just didn't want people looking for sound dietary approaches to take that seriously. Not if they want to look halfway decent w/clothes off.

I'm sure Mr. X will get back to you as well on this and the fat issue....

~SC~
 
Re: tip

Right carbs are very protein sparing and your quickest route to GOOD energy (energy-cortisol=good energy).
there is no such thing: energy-cortisol, where did you get that ludicrous formula? site please

Any type of physical activity WILL BURN GLUCOSE wether you get that glucose from your carbs or you get that glucose from your protein or you get that glucose from your actual muscle tissue you will get the glucose.

i could eat hi gi stuff ALL day and be 100% fine as long as A. I didnt give into the hunger incured through low blood sugar roller-coastering and B. stayed within my caloric limit.
right, you COULD do that, and you also COULD technically survive by eating a TON of newspaper and shoe leather but you don't see people doing that

In fact if my diet was 99% carb and .5% protein and .5% fat and all the carb i ate was like pure table sugar and i didnt die in a week or two from no protein and fat then i could really lose some weight as long as I was under my caloric expenditure.
that's correct, you'd lose WEIGHT, weight be would defined as all your muscle tissue which possibly includes the heart -which is a muscle...afterwhich you would lose bodyfat but that would be right before you diet

That is if i could somehow determine when i REALLY needed to eat between when my blood had just been sucked dry from an insulin surge.
that's simple...get a Blood glucose meter and ketone meter

A slow release GI will fill up your glycogen stores before it will fill up your fat and in an active person glycogen stores are really ALWAYS needing to be a lil fuller,
Why would they need to be fuller? You can be active w/ low-glycogen stores and have a higher % of bodyfat loss. Think of it this way, if you're 2 steps away from completing a million dollar world marathon as the 1st placer, why would you want to stop there - same goes for people that work hard dieting, why sit there and mix up foods that might prevent fat loss

save for off days but in a good two hour workout you'll suck yor glycogen stores down a great deal, almost to nothing. You can only hold about 200-400g of sugar in muscle glycogen stores.
Actually, you are incorrect because the liver can hold up to 150g carbs, so add it to the equation and your carb spread it too high...like saying eat between 2000 and 3000 calories

This means 2 things 1. If I'm burning the stuff throught the day AND im active overflowing wont be really a problem less your hitting 450+ carbs (others can hold more or less depends on your lean muscle mass) and B. As long as you keep the carbs low GI they will relase at a rate as slow as you burn the carbs off (fiber helps with this).

I added carbs to my diet and reduced my protein a lil to 30% of my diet (WHAT CARBS UP PROTEIN DOWN?!?!) and acutally got leaner and built more muscle because energy was more readily avaible instead of having to be made with that nasty hormone cortisol in huge amounts all the time.
not sure what you're trying to say b/c that's exactly what I'm saying, higher carbs lower protein and low fat

Workouts got better energy improved ect. I maintain now about a 40-50% carbs daily and i just stay within my caloric bounds. (note: carbs are really anabolic too good for building muscle). See the hormones insulin and cortisol and glucagon and Gh are all relative to each other in differnt ways, without going into to much detail the point is this.

You will burn as many calories as u burn those calories will be of the macronutrient ratio you ate or close to it (this can be altered but for performance purposes not ideal) example as insulin goes down fats are utilized more and as less glucose is avaible protein is used to create more ect ect.
actually, that's not correct, for when glucose stores are very low usually the person in most cases is close to ketosis and can use FFA (free fatty acids) for energy; in addition, if the liver is close to being empty of glycogen then Ketones can be produce from FFA.

People get this weird fear of carbs like they belive somehow if they eat carbs they wont burn off the fat they eat, thats not true at all.
that's actually very true....if you eat carbs enough you will not be able to achive any level of fat loss (NOT weight loss) unless you've got a secret I dont' know about...
A guy that loads up on 1 cup of rice and some fatty grilled meat is most likely to gain some bodyfat


If they are within caloric bounds they will HAVE to burn off the fat they ate.
no they will not have to burn the fat they ate, for muscle protein can be used for energy; since protein has about a 50% conversion rate to glucose you can see the problem

Carbs I see as having some of the best benefits (good energy, anabolic, protein sparing, aids recovry, ect ect)
that's again not true...after eating carbs I am usually sluggish and sleepy, so really you're making a general blanket statement

They can be eatin in high amounts as long as the two T's are followed and thats type and timing, I eat carbs throught the day but i eat them heaviest at breakfast and after workout.
right, so you are almost doing a TKD customized

Fats have no guesswork with them cause u arent spiking inuslin levels by eating them but at the same time they dont provide energy the same way a carb does.
If you are in ketosis long enough fats can actually provide more energy

Mr. X said something about 10% fat, this i belive is to low regardless of carb intake.
Please go back and RE-read this case before you make statements. He is a Kick boxer that uses a LOT of energy during a workout, I'm not sure if you've ever kickboxed but I have and I KNOW first hand how much energy expenditures it takes. In his diet there is NO room for fat

At that level your testosterone levels are gonna be taking a major hit, not really ideal.
again not true, a 10% intake of saturated fats has shown to increase testosterone levels; thus, if he takes in 10% he should be fine...I'm not saying it's ideal for everyone but in his case it surely is a good way to go

A good ratio is 45-50 carbs this should provide enough glycogen to supply you through the day\workouts 20-25 fats this will give you something to save your glycogen stores for when you really need them like during training and then really no more than 30 percent protein above and beyond that you'll just pee a lot, have gas, and burn it like you would a carb.
why would you pee a lot and have gas? none of those are side-effects of burning calories - very untrue

What i like to do is kinda alternate by eating a meal with a good amoutn of carbs (breakfast) then my mid morning meal one more focusing on fats since by that time my insulin levels have lowered a bit and putting some EFA's in me will then leave my body on burning less glucose meaning more glycogen saved for when you need it.
just because you take in some EFA's it does not mean you burn less glycogen, where did you get that idea

So obviously in conclusion you should be deathly afraid of carbs because they are just little devils put on this earth to make us fat and have no nutritional value beyond that. (this is for anyone who didnt read the whole thing and thought they could get away with the last line)
Right, I dont' see the point of this post since I already said before this post that he should go w/ 50% carbs

Mr.X
 
Nathan101085

here's some research I suggest you do next time:

1. Koeslag JH. Post-exercise ketosis and the hormone response to exercise: a review. Med Sci
Sports Exerc (1982) 14: 327-334
2. Gorski J et. al. Hepatic lipid metabolism in exercise training. Med Sci Sports Exerc (1990)
22(2): 213-221.
3. Wasserman DH et. al. Role of the endocrine pancreas in control of fuel metabolism by the liver
during exercise. Int J Obesity (1995) 19 (Suppl 4): S22-30.
4. Balasse EO and Fery F. Ketone body production and disposal: Effects of fasting, diabetes and
exercise. Diabetes/Metabolism Reviews (1989) 5: 247-270.
5. Keller U et. al. Human ketone body production and utilization studied using tracer techniques:
regulation by free fatty acids, insulin, catecholamines, and thyroid hormones.
227
Diabetes/Metabolism Reviews (1989) 5: 285-298.
6. Wahren J et. al. Turnover and splanchnic metabolism of free fatty acids and ketones in insulindependent
diabetics at rest and in response to exercise. J Clin Invest (1984)
73: 1367-1376.
7. Fery F and Balasse EO. Response of ketone body metabolism to exercise during transition
from postabsorptive to fasted state. Am J Physiol (1986) 250: E495-E501.
8. “Physiology of Sport and Exercise” Jack H. Wilmore and David L. Costill. Human Kinetics
Publishers 1994.
9. “Exercise Physiology: Human Bioenergetics and it’s applications” George A Brooks, Thomas D.
Fahey, and Timothy P. White. Mayfield Publishing Company 1996.
10. Romijn JA et. al. Regulation of endogenous fat and carbohydrate metabolism in relation to
exercise intensity and duration. Am J Physiol (1993) 265: E380-391.

Mr.X
 
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