Man...Ive Always Wondered.........

[SonnyBlack]

does it really matter wat you eat in terms of not gaining fat as long as you dont go over maintenance calories???In other words let say on one day you eat 2 mcdonalds hamburgers and a snickers ( i know im exagerating a litlle...i normally dont eat this crap myself) during a day and fries...but your calories stayed below maintenance...will you gain fat????Does it matter wat foods u eat or wat combos of foods u eat (fat and carbs, protein and fat...etc)...or how many calories u eat during the day???

 

[tlhc]

if you don't go over maintenance it won't make you fat

there was this dude, don't remember his name, who posted that he ate ice cream and pizza all day when cutting, he did some kind of isocaloric diet i think,....

it's not healthy doing that, but staying below maintenance get's the work done, no matter what food you eat........ MHO

 

[Mr.X]

Technically, but it you look at reason, I think no. Because, let's say you eat a pint of ice cream (800cal) with 1cup of grape juice and 2 apples and peanut butter sandwhich. Oh man, this will wreak havoc on your insulin and of-course store a lot of the food as fat, i.e. the high-gi w/ fat will fit into the category of BMR calories, but it will also fit into the category of sure fat gain.

Mr.X

 

[SonnyBlack]

can anyone please expand mr x's respond cus i dont really get it...does this apply only to things with sugar that elevate insulin greatly...or just all carbs in general??? Which of these foods will wreak havoc on your insulin levels and make you become iinsulin resistant or wat???please elaborate a little more for the sake of slow people like me...hehe

 

[tlhc]

i don't completely get it either,

let's say there is a person which needs (-insert high number here-) cals maintenance

and he consumes that pint of ice cream, 1 cup grape juice,... in one sitting,

consequently lots of insulin is released into his bloodstream and he stores all the fat,

but what happens when this meal is his only one?
does it mean that this is a sure way to get fat while losing muscles? because you store all the fat from that one meal, but you lose lots of muscles because the body prefers protein over fat the rest of the day, and also because blood sugar is dropping?

i'm getting a little confused,...

 

[SonnyBlack]

yeah me too...man this is confusing!!!diet gurus please chime in!!

 

[Hoffmeister]

I think, in general, it still has more to do with 24 hour calorie balance than an individual meal.

But I also think this approach makes sense. John Berardi explains this fairly well in his "Massive Eating":

http://www.testosterone.net/html/147mass.html

I try to follow this as much as possible (but not the calorie intake he suggests). I try to base every meal around protein first, then either fats or carbs. For example, if I eat a Ribeye Steak, I'll only have a salad or mixed vegetables with it. With fish or chicken, I'll eat sweet potatoes, brown rice, etc.

Above all, I try to stay away from high fat/high carb combinations. It seems to be a workable "lifetime" diet.

 

[Tha One CrumCake]

Massive Eating is a fantastic approach to not only pre-contest, bulking, dieting, but also everyday eating.

When insulin levels are up for tha average Joe Blow it's impossible to burn bodyfat. That's why when u bullshit foods even below your maintance you still won't lose fat.

 

[diamonddiceclay]

what diet are you on?

 

[MS]

Technically it doesn't matter as long as you're getting enough protein to maintain LBM and moving the weights around. It really makes no difference if you pig out for one meal and store lots of fat and then remobilise the fat the next day. It is also untrue to say that you cannot burn stored fat when insulin levels are high. The isulin reduces the rate of fatburning but doesn't eliminate it. And by creating a calorie deficit your body will burn more fat later on when insulin levels have dropped. The worst diet you could eat would be a high carb frequent feeding diet. This keeps insulin levels high most of the day and is not good for you. Aside from that hunger rears it's ugly head a lot more on a high GI diet. But even in this state you can still lose fat as long as you eat below maintenance.

 

[SonnyBlack]

but wat about becoming insulin resistant???wat will cause this???eating too many carbs???wat kind of carbs should u eat????

 

[elijah]

Mr. X is correct on this one, here is a simple analogy I'll explain more.

Say you have 10 tons of gravel to move to another location, and a 1/2 pickup truck to move it. Over the course of the day 20 loads will get it there. But some idiots says hey lets save time, throw it all on there. Not much of a truck left, correct?

Here is a bit more scientific approach. Your body can store a certain amount of glucose (the fule your body uses mainly to move) Sugars go there first, when thats full you body says hmmm what to do, ok we've got all this yumm energy to use instead of wasting it by not digesting and pooping it out, we'll digest and store it!
And it chooses fat to store it in.

 

[Hoffmeister]

True, your body may store it as fat, but the rest of the day it will mobilize the fat for fuel.

This is the same logic behind the 6 meals a day thing. And while there are some good reasons for doing the 6 meals a day, in and of itself it doesn't seem to affect actual weight loss.

 

[damac]

I wondered about this also because I hit what I thought was a wall while losing weight after being obese probably since I was in junior high.

I was 283 pds in march 2000 and started exercising and calculating calories the best I could with online calculators.

in the beginning I could not shake many of the foods I loved. whole milk, sauces on meats, lots of carbs, ice cream, etc.

Although I managed to create a calorie deficit through diet I really did it through allot of exercise like 6 days an hour of cardio and 3 intense weight lifting sessions/week.

I just in april hit 167 pounds and maintained for 5 weeks then started doing things the opposite way by adding in extra calories to see if I would gain weight and I did during my test gain tons of weight back faster than I took it off. Well im done with that and going to get back to where I was and look into a low carb diet to see if these cutting diets have any merit.

Because at that point I was at a calorie deficit and not losing for 5 weeks and not seeing body composition change.

But anyways my point is I created a calorie deficit with mostly carbs and very high in fat and still lost pretty much what I should have on the calorie totals. Is that beginners gains or something? I lost my weight at just over 2 pds/week for over a year to get to where I am.

 

[SonnyBlack]

bump

 

[MS]

hoffmeister has pretty much nailed it. It doesn't matter a heck of a lot whether you store dietary fat and then burn it off later in the day by creating an overall calorie deficit. In Damac's case, by definition, he was no longer in calorie deficit when he stopped losing weight. Most likely this was from metabolic slow down.

6 high protien/low carb meals per day, as well as ketogenic diets both help to control appetite. Excessive appetite is what kills most diets. But if you have the willpower to stick to a high carb low cal diet then you will lose weight. When you are obese you will lose mostly fat no matter what kind of diet you go on. As you get leaner you'll find that diets that preserve muscle are more beneficial (ie keto or high protein) to your goals. And yes, a high carb/high fat diet is prolly
not good for your insulin sensitivity long term, but that doesn't mean you can't lose weight on it if you stick to it.

The other thing to consider is the importance of regular high carb feeds to keep your metabolism from stalling. Otherwise (as in Damac's case) you'll find that you have to continully cut back more and more on you cals to maintain fatloss.

 

[blood_drinker]

I typed up an elabarote answer that is now a sticky as I write this. If you wish to debate, do so there.