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Dr.EF
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CHAPTER 1
PROTEIN: NEEDS & TIMING
In the first chapter we will discuss the protein needs of the body builder (for now on will be noted as BB) and protein timing. Ask 10 different BB how much protein a person should consume and you will get 10 different answers. Ask 10 expert trainers in the field of weight training and you will also get 10 different answers.
Protein timing; do we really need to eat protein every two hours? Is post-workout protein timing as important as we think? Do protein enzymes make a difference in the absorption of protein? After reading this chapter you will have your answers as well as the science to back them up.
Protein Timing:
For simplistic sake I have limited the resources to ones available on the internet so all can view.
Table 3 compares whole enzyme protein (WP) with hydrolysate protein (HP) in hours above baseline.
The participants in the study fasted for 12 hours prior to taking either, WP or HP and the blood level of the protein were compared over several hours. As you can see the HP group did absorb more quickly than WP group in the initial hour. However, over the course of 3 hours levels were almost even. As Crane and Neuberger note, after 2 hours urinary ammonia (protein) decreased to about 50% of their maximum value (Crane and Neuberger 1960).
*Note The actual chart wouldn't transpose to the forum. I made a quick reference chart similar to actual chart used in the report.
Table 3: Isotope Content (atom % excess)
time (hrs.) protein hydrolyate
0-0.5 0-121 0-241
0.5-1 0-490 0-623
1-1.5 0-439 0-435
1.5-2 0-304 0-292
2-3 0-205 0-207
(Crane and Neuberger 1960)
This simple report tells a big story. First we don’t need to eat protein every 2 hours if we are eating protein from food sources. Whole protein found in foods will digest slower and slower still if eaten with other foods because your body will have to not only absorb the protein but the other foods as well. So if you’re crying because you forgot to take your protein shakes after 2 hours don’t worry you didn’t miss anything! You must also realize the absorption rates noted in the experiment are after a 12 hour fast. The subjects in the study had an optimal situation to uptake any food placed in the stomach. Thus we can safely conclude any food source regardless of enzyme will suffice for giving an individual a positive nitrogen balance over the course of 3 hours. We can also find the same summation in Crane and Neuberger; the experiment indicate WP and HP absorption rate is more or the less the same. However they do note the HP was slightly faster peeking around 20-40minutes opposed to WP peeking around 1hour (Crane and Neuberger 1960). I should note that HP would be best served post-workout when the timing is most important.
Protein Needs:
Now that we established scientifically protein timing, we need to understand the protein needs of a BB. Yes, BB and athletes need more protein then the average man. But how much more is the question?
According to Nancy Clark, MS, RD, CSSD (very well known nutritionist) the following chart applies:
Table 1:
Recreational exerciser, adult: 0.5-0.75 gm protein/lb healthy body wt.
Competitive athlete, adult: 0.6-0.9
Growing teenage athlete: 0.8-0.9
Dieting athlete, low calories: 0.8-0.9
Maximum for all healthy athletes, including body builders: 0.9 gram.
(Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook 2008).
Please remember this is at healthy body fat levels. The following formula is my preferred way of deciding healthy body weight. Deduct any body fat % over 10% from your actual weight to determine your protein needs. Example: 200lb man, 14% BF. 200*4%= 8lbs of fat that do not need to be included in your protein calculations. A 200lb BB with 14% BF needs 200-8= 192+.9gm/lb= 172.9gms of protein daily according to Nancy Clark.
There are many factors involved in determining how much protein an individual needs.
1. Are you a bodybuilding, strength or Olympic training
2. Dieting or Bulking
3. Are you trying to gain muscle mass
Number one on the list above basically means are you hypertrophy training or training your CNS. Doing tons of 1 and 2 rep work is not going to require much if any additional protein needs. If your main goal is hypertrophy or strength training with a sub goal of hypertrophy then yes you need additional protein. I think this is the main reason for confusing in the literature. We must distinguish between what types of sport the subject’s training for, as well as the set/rep scheme. What you must realize is those scientists are not for the most part weight trainers. They use literature to determine set/rep ranges. There information is usually from books that are outdated and inaccurate. Example: They may do research on protein intake of a strength athlete and use a subject that is strength training with 1 set of 6 reps. We all know this is not going to produce the environment necessary to utilize the excess protein BB recommend. This will skew the results.
Number two is very important. If you’re bulking and taking in enough calories, protein will not be your top priority. On the other hand if you’re dieting or doing maintenance calories you need to make sure protein is optimized.
Number three is straight forward. If you’re not training for hypertrophy there is no need for additional protein.
The chart seems simple but I believe it is very dangerous so far as the smallest miscalculations or confusion of your goals can lead to small or zero gains. Example: someone with maintenance calories or dieting and they try to follow the chart will have disastrous results. A bodybuilder who is in the gym 5 days a week doing 20 sets a day will also fall short if following this chart.
The reason I go into detail with regards to Nancy Clark’s chart is because her recommendations are actually slightly above the normal standards most nutritionist deem fit for people and athletes. From my own experience and research that cannot be found in a text book it is clear her recommendations fall short for the majority of BB’s. It is clear her recommendations work for some of the people noted in my chart but if it doesn’t apply to all then it is not valid. If her work is not valid than we can now say that most of the nutritionist who agree or believe her recommends are to high are all wrong. The research today doesn’t give a clear picture to persons outside the weight lifting community because for every positive report that more protein is good there is an equal number of reports’ advising against more protein. However, persons in the field of weight training such as professional bodybuilders, trainers and BB community know from experience that high protein works. This is the X factor scientist never use because it can’t be measured.
I will give you the science behind your protein needs and you will see the science clearly points to 1 obvious conclusion.
First the math: 1oz = .062499 lbs = 28.349 gm
According to The Colgan Institute of Nutritional Sciences the human body can only gain about 1oz of muscle per day or .437493lbs a week (almost ½ lb). Furthermore the most muscle mass gained by anyone in a year under experiment at the institution was 18.25lbs (Bodybuilding.com/HowMuchMuscleCanYouGain). I contacted the institute and the numbers were confirmed. Logically speaking if we can only gain 1oz or 28.349 grams of muscle daily, why would we need 100gms more protein above our nitrogen balance? The answer is simply we wouldn’t. This is one of the reasons the experts use to explain why we don’t need so much protein. The problem is and what they don’t see is BB need more protein than the average man just to get a balanced nitrogen level. Research done using the average men with low muscle to weight ratios do not correlate well to BB’s, period. If a BB 6 feet tall, weight 210, 10%bf (Subject 1) and the average guy is 6 feet tall, weight 190, 10% bf (Subject 2), the BB would need much more protein to maintain his level of musicality, plus the additional protein to grow. Every time the BB workouts out he must compensate with more protein then the average guy. More muscle is broken down and damaged thus more protein must be needed.
Simply looking at the numbers will clear this up. According top Nancy Clark the most protein a BB would need is .9gm of protein per lb.
Using the same subject above:
Subject 1:
Protein Needs according to Nancy Clark: 189
Subject 2:
Protein Needs according to Nancy Clark: 171
All things being equal subject 1 has 20lbs more muscle mass than subject 2 but according to Nancy Clark and other nutritionist, subject 1 only needs 18 more grams of protein daily to maintain this additional mass. That is less then 1 ounce of additional protein daily. Does anyone else see something wrong here? We must realize even when you body build you are not breaking down all the muscle in your body and the muscle you are breaking down is not completely broken down. So don’t start thinking you need tons of protein to cover all your muscle. There is no definitive answer to how much muscle is broken down in a given workout. But we can conclude in the above example that 18 grams of protein will not suffice in balancing nitrogen in the body when comparing an ordinary man and an advanced BB. I hope this puts to rest the belief that BB do not need additional protein supplementation.
With regards to high protein intake I will mention several studies briefly and draw a conclusion.
A 4 week comparison of 3.3gm or 1.3gms of protein per kilo of body mass showed greater body mass in the high protein group (Fern et. al 1991).
Another study by (Meredith et al. 1992) shows simply giving group 1 23gms of additional protein compared to group 2 with no supplementation produced greater muscle mass gains.
According to (Paul GL 1989) 2.0 to 2.2gm of protein per kilo was barely enough to maintain nitrogen balance during moderate weight training and up to 2.6gms were need for very high intensity training sessions (such as supersets and other high intensity routines).
So were do we stand in regards to protein intake by very active BB’s? The research clearly points to BB’s needing about 1.2 to 1.5 grams of protein to lbs of lean body weight. This number is dependant on the intensity of the routine and goals mentioned in table 1.
Putting It All Together:
Protein Timing:
1. About every 2-3 hours
2. Protein type is not important except post-workout
Protein Needs:
1. 1.2 to 1.5 grams of protein per lean lb of body weight for very active BB’s
2. Protein needs are closely related to the type of physical training done by the subject
Protein Timing:
Determine your wake up / bed time: 8:00am to 11:00pm
Subtract 2 hours. 1 for early morning and 1 for bed preparation
That leaves you 12 hours to consume food.
Divide 12hours by 1meal every 3 hours.
You get 4 meals daily plus a post-workout shake.
Protein Needs:
Body Weight: 225lbs (Subject Example)
Body Fat over 10%: (Subjects BF) 15% -10% (Lean Body Standard) = 5% body fat not needed in calculations
Body Weight minus Body Fat not used: 225*5%=11.25lbs
Actual Weight Used to Determine Protein needs: 225-11.25= 213.75lbs
Protein Intake: 1.2 / 1.5x 213.75 lbs = 256.5 / 320.625 grams of protein daily
Divide 256.5 / 320.625 by 4+1post shake =
51.3 / 64.125 grams of protein per meal, including post-workout shake every 3 hours.
REFERENCES
Clark Nancy. “Nancy Clark’s Sports Nutrition Guidebook”. Human Kinetics Publishers. 2008
Paul GL. “Dietary protein requirements of physically active individuals”. Sports Med 8:154-176. 1989
C. W. Crane and A. Neuberger. “The digestion and absorption of protein by normal man”. Biochem J. 1960
**************************************************************************************
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES
www.colganinstitute.com
www.bodybuilding.com
www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov
www.vanderbilt.edu
PROTEIN: NEEDS & TIMING
In the first chapter we will discuss the protein needs of the body builder (for now on will be noted as BB) and protein timing. Ask 10 different BB how much protein a person should consume and you will get 10 different answers. Ask 10 expert trainers in the field of weight training and you will also get 10 different answers.
Protein timing; do we really need to eat protein every two hours? Is post-workout protein timing as important as we think? Do protein enzymes make a difference in the absorption of protein? After reading this chapter you will have your answers as well as the science to back them up.
Protein Timing:
For simplistic sake I have limited the resources to ones available on the internet so all can view.
Table 3 compares whole enzyme protein (WP) with hydrolysate protein (HP) in hours above baseline.
The participants in the study fasted for 12 hours prior to taking either, WP or HP and the blood level of the protein were compared over several hours. As you can see the HP group did absorb more quickly than WP group in the initial hour. However, over the course of 3 hours levels were almost even. As Crane and Neuberger note, after 2 hours urinary ammonia (protein) decreased to about 50% of their maximum value (Crane and Neuberger 1960).
*Note The actual chart wouldn't transpose to the forum. I made a quick reference chart similar to actual chart used in the report.
Table 3: Isotope Content (atom % excess)
time (hrs.) protein hydrolyate
0-0.5 0-121 0-241
0.5-1 0-490 0-623
1-1.5 0-439 0-435
1.5-2 0-304 0-292
2-3 0-205 0-207
(Crane and Neuberger 1960)
This simple report tells a big story. First we don’t need to eat protein every 2 hours if we are eating protein from food sources. Whole protein found in foods will digest slower and slower still if eaten with other foods because your body will have to not only absorb the protein but the other foods as well. So if you’re crying because you forgot to take your protein shakes after 2 hours don’t worry you didn’t miss anything! You must also realize the absorption rates noted in the experiment are after a 12 hour fast. The subjects in the study had an optimal situation to uptake any food placed in the stomach. Thus we can safely conclude any food source regardless of enzyme will suffice for giving an individual a positive nitrogen balance over the course of 3 hours. We can also find the same summation in Crane and Neuberger; the experiment indicate WP and HP absorption rate is more or the less the same. However they do note the HP was slightly faster peeking around 20-40minutes opposed to WP peeking around 1hour (Crane and Neuberger 1960). I should note that HP would be best served post-workout when the timing is most important.
Protein Needs:
Now that we established scientifically protein timing, we need to understand the protein needs of a BB. Yes, BB and athletes need more protein then the average man. But how much more is the question?
According to Nancy Clark, MS, RD, CSSD (very well known nutritionist) the following chart applies:
Table 1:
Recreational exerciser, adult: 0.5-0.75 gm protein/lb healthy body wt.
Competitive athlete, adult: 0.6-0.9
Growing teenage athlete: 0.8-0.9
Dieting athlete, low calories: 0.8-0.9
Maximum for all healthy athletes, including body builders: 0.9 gram.
(Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook 2008).
Please remember this is at healthy body fat levels. The following formula is my preferred way of deciding healthy body weight. Deduct any body fat % over 10% from your actual weight to determine your protein needs. Example: 200lb man, 14% BF. 200*4%= 8lbs of fat that do not need to be included in your protein calculations. A 200lb BB with 14% BF needs 200-8= 192+.9gm/lb= 172.9gms of protein daily according to Nancy Clark.
There are many factors involved in determining how much protein an individual needs.
1. Are you a bodybuilding, strength or Olympic training
2. Dieting or Bulking
3. Are you trying to gain muscle mass
Number one on the list above basically means are you hypertrophy training or training your CNS. Doing tons of 1 and 2 rep work is not going to require much if any additional protein needs. If your main goal is hypertrophy or strength training with a sub goal of hypertrophy then yes you need additional protein. I think this is the main reason for confusing in the literature. We must distinguish between what types of sport the subject’s training for, as well as the set/rep scheme. What you must realize is those scientists are not for the most part weight trainers. They use literature to determine set/rep ranges. There information is usually from books that are outdated and inaccurate. Example: They may do research on protein intake of a strength athlete and use a subject that is strength training with 1 set of 6 reps. We all know this is not going to produce the environment necessary to utilize the excess protein BB recommend. This will skew the results.
Number two is very important. If you’re bulking and taking in enough calories, protein will not be your top priority. On the other hand if you’re dieting or doing maintenance calories you need to make sure protein is optimized.
Number three is straight forward. If you’re not training for hypertrophy there is no need for additional protein.
The chart seems simple but I believe it is very dangerous so far as the smallest miscalculations or confusion of your goals can lead to small or zero gains. Example: someone with maintenance calories or dieting and they try to follow the chart will have disastrous results. A bodybuilder who is in the gym 5 days a week doing 20 sets a day will also fall short if following this chart.
The reason I go into detail with regards to Nancy Clark’s chart is because her recommendations are actually slightly above the normal standards most nutritionist deem fit for people and athletes. From my own experience and research that cannot be found in a text book it is clear her recommendations fall short for the majority of BB’s. It is clear her recommendations work for some of the people noted in my chart but if it doesn’t apply to all then it is not valid. If her work is not valid than we can now say that most of the nutritionist who agree or believe her recommends are to high are all wrong. The research today doesn’t give a clear picture to persons outside the weight lifting community because for every positive report that more protein is good there is an equal number of reports’ advising against more protein. However, persons in the field of weight training such as professional bodybuilders, trainers and BB community know from experience that high protein works. This is the X factor scientist never use because it can’t be measured.
I will give you the science behind your protein needs and you will see the science clearly points to 1 obvious conclusion.
First the math: 1oz = .062499 lbs = 28.349 gm
According to The Colgan Institute of Nutritional Sciences the human body can only gain about 1oz of muscle per day or .437493lbs a week (almost ½ lb). Furthermore the most muscle mass gained by anyone in a year under experiment at the institution was 18.25lbs (Bodybuilding.com/HowMuchMuscleCanYouGain). I contacted the institute and the numbers were confirmed. Logically speaking if we can only gain 1oz or 28.349 grams of muscle daily, why would we need 100gms more protein above our nitrogen balance? The answer is simply we wouldn’t. This is one of the reasons the experts use to explain why we don’t need so much protein. The problem is and what they don’t see is BB need more protein than the average man just to get a balanced nitrogen level. Research done using the average men with low muscle to weight ratios do not correlate well to BB’s, period. If a BB 6 feet tall, weight 210, 10%bf (Subject 1) and the average guy is 6 feet tall, weight 190, 10% bf (Subject 2), the BB would need much more protein to maintain his level of musicality, plus the additional protein to grow. Every time the BB workouts out he must compensate with more protein then the average guy. More muscle is broken down and damaged thus more protein must be needed.
Simply looking at the numbers will clear this up. According top Nancy Clark the most protein a BB would need is .9gm of protein per lb.
Using the same subject above:
Subject 1:
Protein Needs according to Nancy Clark: 189
Subject 2:
Protein Needs according to Nancy Clark: 171
All things being equal subject 1 has 20lbs more muscle mass than subject 2 but according to Nancy Clark and other nutritionist, subject 1 only needs 18 more grams of protein daily to maintain this additional mass. That is less then 1 ounce of additional protein daily. Does anyone else see something wrong here? We must realize even when you body build you are not breaking down all the muscle in your body and the muscle you are breaking down is not completely broken down. So don’t start thinking you need tons of protein to cover all your muscle. There is no definitive answer to how much muscle is broken down in a given workout. But we can conclude in the above example that 18 grams of protein will not suffice in balancing nitrogen in the body when comparing an ordinary man and an advanced BB. I hope this puts to rest the belief that BB do not need additional protein supplementation.
With regards to high protein intake I will mention several studies briefly and draw a conclusion.
A 4 week comparison of 3.3gm or 1.3gms of protein per kilo of body mass showed greater body mass in the high protein group (Fern et. al 1991).
Another study by (Meredith et al. 1992) shows simply giving group 1 23gms of additional protein compared to group 2 with no supplementation produced greater muscle mass gains.
According to (Paul GL 1989) 2.0 to 2.2gm of protein per kilo was barely enough to maintain nitrogen balance during moderate weight training and up to 2.6gms were need for very high intensity training sessions (such as supersets and other high intensity routines).
So were do we stand in regards to protein intake by very active BB’s? The research clearly points to BB’s needing about 1.2 to 1.5 grams of protein to lbs of lean body weight. This number is dependant on the intensity of the routine and goals mentioned in table 1.
Putting It All Together:
Protein Timing:
1. About every 2-3 hours
2. Protein type is not important except post-workout
Protein Needs:
1. 1.2 to 1.5 grams of protein per lean lb of body weight for very active BB’s
2. Protein needs are closely related to the type of physical training done by the subject
Protein Timing:
Determine your wake up / bed time: 8:00am to 11:00pm
Subtract 2 hours. 1 for early morning and 1 for bed preparation
That leaves you 12 hours to consume food.
Divide 12hours by 1meal every 3 hours.
You get 4 meals daily plus a post-workout shake.
Protein Needs:
Body Weight: 225lbs (Subject Example)
Body Fat over 10%: (Subjects BF) 15% -10% (Lean Body Standard) = 5% body fat not needed in calculations
Body Weight minus Body Fat not used: 225*5%=11.25lbs
Actual Weight Used to Determine Protein needs: 225-11.25= 213.75lbs
Protein Intake: 1.2 / 1.5x 213.75 lbs = 256.5 / 320.625 grams of protein daily
Divide 256.5 / 320.625 by 4+1post shake =
51.3 / 64.125 grams of protein per meal, including post-workout shake every 3 hours.
REFERENCES
Clark Nancy. “Nancy Clark’s Sports Nutrition Guidebook”. Human Kinetics Publishers. 2008
Paul GL. “Dietary protein requirements of physically active individuals”. Sports Med 8:154-176. 1989
C. W. Crane and A. Neuberger. “The digestion and absorption of protein by normal man”. Biochem J. 1960
**************************************************************************************
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES
www.colganinstitute.com
www.bodybuilding.com
www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov
www.vanderbilt.edu
