Best way to get a higher Bench Max?

[Debaser]

And project you never did actually reply to me you just hid behind someone elses post. Are you afraid to answer my questions honestly because they may reveal that some of what I am saying is right?

 

[TheProject]

And project you never did actually reply to me you just hid behind someone elses post. Are you afraid to answer my questions honestly because they may reveal that some of what I am saying is right?

Excuse me? I'm the last person to hide behind anyone's post, and if you really want to see me get nasty, keep pushing.

Perhaps if you'd pull your head out of your ass for a minute, and read the boards, you wouldn't be asking me stupid questions.

I train with spatts and Hannibal, and have told you that before. In addition, all my stats, and pictures, are on the board in various locations. Furthermore, the results from my second PL comp are in a sticky at the top of the chat board, as well as in other threads here.

I've been training for a year and a half, and consider my numbers to be very good.

 

[zackdarnell]

I hate to butt in here, but your attitude really isnt accomplishing anything, Debaser. You're basically insulting people. I've got to agree with about everything B, Spatts, and Project have said on this thread. This whole thing started because you argued that he shouldn't work his weak points. You even said he might not have a weak point. Everyone has weak points!

And it seems to me like you are still referring to Westside as "volume training".

How many posts have you made that are nearing 500 replies and helping people to gain 2-3 pounds A WEEK? K.

Whats the big deal? You posted someone else's training program. Im not accusing you of plagiarising, because you gave all the credit to DC, but dont make yourself out to be the all-knowing post god. It wasnt so much your post that got the 500 replies, as the info which was in your post, which came from DC. I could have posted that and gotten hundreds of replies.

And if you are natural, what are your stats now and how many years did it take to reach those figures?

Natural
Training 1 year (powerlifting even less)
Squat 500
Bench 295
Deadlift 500
All lifts raw.

 

[emptywallet]

Yes. Exactly. We SHARE ideas, and methods, suggestions, etc... That's different from saying, "I do it this way, so everyone else should too." I don't care much for that.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. It appears we did cross wires. I've been saying this from the beginning when he made an appearence in my thread. I don't mind his suggestions at all. Debaser, I think you have very valid opinions and make good points. Its just the way your communicating them to others that is striking your abilitiy to get through to us down. If the material was presented in a different way, as spatts and others imply, we would be alot more open to it. You and I came to an understanding in that last thread. Who's to say you and these guys can't? Even if you don't think your over reacting, the rest of us think you are, and if you'd just take a different approach other than "What I am doing is the end all to lifting", then alot of us would discuss almost anything you wanted with you. Spatts is this kinda along the lines of what you were saying?

 

[spatts]

And project you never did actually reply to me you just hid behind someone elses post. Are you afraid to answer my questions honestly because they may reveal that some of what I am saying is right?

You gave him exactly 14 minutes to reply before accusing him of hiding. He is a grown man with a real job, in the real world. He doesn't babysit your supercilious posts.

 

[Debaser]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. It appears we did cross wires. I've been saying this from the beginning when he made an appearence in my thread. I don't mind his suggestions at all. Debaser, I think you have very valid opinions and make good points. Its just the way your communicating them to others that is striking your abilitiy to get through to us down. If the material was presented in a different way, as spatts and others imply, we would be alot more open to it. You and I came to an understanding in that last thread. Who's to say you and these guys can't? Even if you don't think your over reacting, the rest of us think you are, and if you'd just take a different approach other than "What I am doing is the end all to lifting", then alot of us would discuss almost anything you wanted with you. Spatts is this kinda along the lines of what you were saying?

Okay I'm typing this for the second time because I just lost this entire post, and dammit it was pretty long

spatts/bfold/project/etc I sincerely apologize for how I acted and realize that I can be hotheaded when it comes to being adamant about my ideas/methods. I just wanted to get that out of the way and state some things...

1. I am a "crusader" against volume training. I hate it with a passion. The reason I'm confrontational sometimes is that I can't count how many times I've seen a post like this:

MY CHEST WORKOUT LOL
8 SETS FLAT BENCH
7 SETS DECLINE BENCH
10 SETS INCLINE BENCH
3748 SETS FLYES
PEC DEC BURNOUTS
CABLE CROSSOVER REVERSE QUADRUPLE DROPSETS

WHY AM I NOT GANIGNG MUSSIL?!!!1

2. I have nothing against WSB. I believe it is a great protocol for those with good genetics, but not for those that have poor genetics. "Average" I'm not so sure about. I may try WSB one of these days.

3. This is sort of paraphrasing what IronAddict and DC have talked about, but I don't know how else to say it. Powerlifters in general train a lot smarter than bodybuilders. Because it's easy to measure their progress, more weight on the bar is an improvement. Many bodybuilders are confused and believe they need to hit muscles from multiple angles, with enough volume, among other things. This makes strength gains difficult and that should really be what they are after. If you're eating enough, and (in general) doing higher reps (not really high but I'd say 5 reps or more and not 1rms) then strength gains = size gains. Deepsquat will hit 420+ x 20 in the squat soon. How many trainees are really that strong or even close to it? I'm willing to be that deepsquat is not a small guy, and I highly doubt his legs are underdeveloped, even though he doesn't do 6+ leg exercises. Powerlifters continuously gain strength, I'd say not as much size as they COULD (due to either eating to stay in a wt class or doing lots of singles) as a whole they're gaining more than the avg bodybuilders.

4. To clarify and objectively discuss the original topic, I'll just say it without trying to step on very many toes.

bfold said that for the poster to increase his bench, to work on his weakpoints.

To an extent I agree, however, when his routine looks like this for chest:

Flat Bench (4 sets as i mentioned above)
Incline Bench (Also 4 sets)
Incline Dumbell Presses (3 sets)
Fly's (3 sets)
Dips [? sets]

The problem is not a weak point. The problem is he's unable to recover fully and become stronger because of overtraining. When I'm not doing DC (single set) training, this is what my chest routine looks like on my push day

Dips 2 x 6
Incline bench 1 x 8, rest pause to failure

Not enough? Well I manage to add weight, reps, or both every single workout.

Since he's obviously concerned more with benching I'd simply change those dips to bench presses. But he should easily be recovering from my proposed schedule, and thus be able to add weight, 1-2 lbs a week (maybe more) and progress. If he took your advice to work on weakpoints, I'm sure he would probably just add EVEN MORE volume to different bodyparts, and become even further overtrained. Some people ask how you can add 1-2 lbs per week or less, one of the best investments you'll make is in small plates

http://www.fractionalplates.com

whew, hope I don't lose the post this time

 

[spatts]

Thanks, debasser. That was a great post.

Let me tell you why B and I (and many others) like to center our accessory work around our weakness. Knowing your weakness is a valuable TOOL, if nothing else. For example, when I got done with the "body building days" I had such messed up shoulders that I couldn't even bench the bar anymore. I switched to powerlifting, and that by default means better form. A powerlifter with poor form is not a powerlifter for long, lol. Last summer, after a few months in PL training, and after alot of band rehab for my shoulders, I noticed that my 4 inch rack lockout on bench was a whopping 403 pounds, but my floor press was only 177. My lockout would climb and climb while my floor press just held stagnant. This told me that my shoulders were still very weak, and in fact ALOT weaker than my triceps (which are used to lock out). I continued to work my triceps, but also did specialized work to bring my rotator cuffs up to speed. Lo and behold, a few months later, my floor press magically jumped over 200 pounds. I added about 25 pounds to my shoulder strength on the bench. The important question is what moves "carry over" and which don't. Well, I KNOW this carries over, because my raw bench jumped from 177 (yeah, see that? Raw total bench was NO STRONGER THAN THE WEAKEST LINK), to 225. The 260 that left my shoulders in pain for a month just 12 weeks ago, flew up as my 2nd attempt at the comp this weekend, and the 270 pounds bench went up really easy too....and no pain.

It's a TOOL to know your weakness. It helps you AVOID injury by knowing your limits, it helps because it provides the opportunity to increase strength without having to move through a full ROM (partials, partials, partials), increase the speed of progress, etc. This is not unique to WSB, or any method. It just makes sense to annihilate your weaknesses.

I have yet to lift the same weight twice in a row on any move. Period. Anything less would be terribly disappointing to me, at this point. Even if it's just a couple pounds.

There are SO many tools at my disposal, and I like to use as many as I'm blessed with.

 

[Debaser]

I'm a firm believe in rotator cuff work too, I do L-flyes and occasionally cuban presses.

 

[spatts]

I think you're missing my point.

Out of floor press, 2 board, 3 board, 4 board, 5 board, lockouts (bottom to top) my raw max has NEVER been more than the lowest of those numbers.

See what I'm getting at?

 

[emptywallet]

Okay I'm typing this for the second time because I just lost this entire post, and dammit it was pretty long

spatts/bfold/project/etc I sincerely apologize for how I acted and realize that I can be hotheaded when it comes to being adamant about my ideas/methods. I just wanted to get that out of the way and state some things...

Dude. I really liked the whole post. See how easy that was? Good show man.