Best way to get a higher Bench Max?

[Debaser]

Volume training, simply put, is inefficient and ineffective for the majority of people on this board. I'm saying my methods (or DC methods, or other similar ideas) will work better, because so many people always complain that they're not seeing decent gains, or they're getting injured, or what have you. They don't realize that they're overtrained following those stupid 4-5 day a week split routines. And YES, THEY ARE STUPID. They are perpetuated by the same conartists and bullshitters that abound in the supplement industry. Anyone who believes otherwise is naive. This is simply NOT a good way to train. I don't care who you are. If you have average or worse genetics, you will gain slowly or not at all on such a routine. If you have great genetics, you'll gain more quickly, but still NOT NEAR as quickly as if you were doing DC training, HST, or other similarly abbreviated training.

 

[b fold the truth]

At 20 years old...I knew it all.

At 25 years old and after 9 1/2 years of intense training and EARNING my pro card and going from 152-305 NATURALLY...I realize that at 20...I really knew VERY VERY LITTLE.

B True

 

[Zander1983]

At 20 years old...I knew it all.

At 25 years old and after 9 1/2 years of intense training and EARNING my pro card and going from 152-305 NATURALLY...I realize that at 20...I really knew VERY VERY LITTLE.

B True

b fold, don't waste your time. Your knowledge and experience is better placed where it is appreciated.

 

[Debaser]

I'm 21, but just because I haven't been training as long doesn't mean I lack knowledge. I know guys at the gym that have trained 10+ years that still don't know what the fuck they are doing.

I just preach what I KNOW WORKS, for the VAST majority of people. I might be 21, but the methods that I promote were created by people like Stuart McRobert, who has probably helped more people to realize their goals than any other man. Or DC, who has helped many gain HUGE amounts of muscle and is now over 300 lbs fairly lean. So you're saying these guys also know very little?

 

[TheProject]

I'm 21, but just because I haven't been training as long doesn't mean I lack knowledge. I know guys at the gym that have trained 10+ years that still don't know what the fuck they are doing.

I just preach what I KNOW WORKS, for the VAST majority of people. I might be 21, but the methods that I promote were created by people like Stuart McRobert, who has probably helped more people to realize their goals than any other man. Or DC, who has helped many gain HUGE amounts of muscle and is now over 300 lbs fairly lean. So you're saying these guys also know very little?

I believe you're the one saying others know very little. Seems you only respect the knowledge of those you agree with, and everyone else must be training incorrectly.

Stop throwing so many stones, and open your damn mind.

 

[emptywallet]

First of all, Debasser was the first to mention WSB. I don't see what that has to do with anything. When people can't form a logical argument about our training they default to "We can't all do Westside," or "You're a Louie worshiper." That argument bothered me, maybe, the first 100 times I heard it. Kinda "on to it" by now.

Empty Wallet, if you read the post I made, which you quoted, I specifically ask "Why not do both..."

I wasn't talking to debasser or anyone, really. I was telling B not to get worked up. We know what it takes for us. It's not worth it to tell someone else how to train. If they make it, great. If they don't, it's the thinning of the herd....buh-bye.

I think you may have taken my post to be attacking the way you and B were debating debaser, or maybe I'm just being to sensitive in reading yours. However I was not meaning to offend you and if I've touched a spot then please forgive me. I do try and add weight to my lifts and work on my weak points, and I see what you mean by teaching another to train. However isnt that the whole point of this board? I'd love to be able for you to look at certain things I do and tell suggestions and the like. I think you and I just got our wires crossed somewhere.

 

[Debaser]

I believe you're the one saying others know very little. Seems you only respect the knowledge of those you agree with, and everyone else must be training incorrectly.

Stop throwing so many stones, and open your damn mind.

If I didn't open my mind, I would still be doing a lame-ass volume routine. That's the whole point. If you honestly think that the routines that muscle & fitness, flex etc. promote are the way to go, then fine. Spin your wheels. Look at all the traffic on the anabolic board as opposed to the training board. Apparently, this is the average Elite Fitness lifters progress:

1. Tries a standard volume routine.
2. Gains become slower and slower.
3. Thinks he's hit his genetic ceiling when in reality could probably add at least 30 more pounds.
4. Tries gear.
5. Starts gaining again. Will make gains IN SPITE of improper training because of gear.

Realgains has commented on this many times and I tend to agree with him, so many people on here turn to gear because they don't realize that this volume bullshit is NOT the way to train for most people.

The routines that most people put here are not much different, volume is still volume. IronAddict put it best: If ALL you did was do squats, stiff legged deadlifts, bench (or dips) weighted pullups, and military or dumbell presses, BUT, since you ALWAYS recovered on this simple schedule (1-2 sets per exercise no more than 3 training days a week, 2 for most) and were able to add weight or reps every workout until you squatted 400 for 20, stiff legged 350 for 15, benched 315 for 12, did pullups with 100 lbs around your waist, and did dumbell presses with 3/4 bodyweight for 8 reps, how big would you be compared to where you are now? That is EXACTLY how many people without great genetics need to train to get big. It's also something they usually will never attempt because they are clueless about what a HUGE role recovery plays and how little training is actually needed to stimulate growth while still allowing recover to occur.

 

[spatts]

However isnt that the whole point of this board?

Yes. Exactly. We SHARE ideas, and methods, suggestions, etc... That's different from saying, "I do it this way, so everyone else should too." I don't care much for that.

 

[TheProject]

If I didn't open my mind, I would still be doing a lame-ass volume routine. That's the whole point. If you honestly think that the routines that muscle & fitness, flex etc. promote are the way to go, then fine. Spin your wheels. Look at all the traffic on the anabolic board as opposed to the training board. Apparently, this is the average Elite Fitness lifters progress:

1. Tries a standard volume routine.
2. Gains become slower and slower.
3. Thinks he's hit his genetic ceiling when in reality could probably add at least 30 more pounds.
4. Tries gear.
5. Starts gaining again. Will make gains IN SPITE of improper training because of gear.

Realgains has commented on this many times and I tend to agree with him, so many people on here turn to gear because they don't realize that this volume bullshit is NOT the way to train for most people.

The routines that most people put here are not much different, volume is still volume. IronAddict put it best: If ALL you did was do squats, stiff legged deadlifts, bench (or dips) weighted pullups, and military or dumbell presses, BUT, since you ALWAYS recovered on this simple schedule (1-2 sets per exercise no more than 3 training days a week, 2 for most) and were able to add weight or reps every workout until you squatted 400 for 20, stiff legged 350 for 15, benched 315 for 12, did pullups with 100 lbs around your waist, and did dumbell presses with 3/4 bodyweight for 8 reps, how big would you be compared to where you are now? That is EXACTLY how many people without great genetics need to train to get big. It's also something they usually will never attempt because they are clueless about what a HUGE role recovery plays and how little training is actually needed to stimulate growth while still allowing recover to occur.

As EVERYONE ELSE HAS TRIED TO TELL YOU:

We are proponents of what works. As has also been said: this is a board designed to share ideas, not come on here and say "your routine sucks, use this one, it's the only one that works." I think I can sum up all of your training board posts with that one sentence.

You did your resarch, found something you like, and I applaud that, I really do. But you can't seem to get the idea that there are people here that train with different routines, natural or not, and get results.

Taking gear without training hard will not net you good results, generally speaking.

You want to:

(A) Knock everyone else's routine, regardless of whether or not it works

(B) Attribute gains made on other routines to either being genetically gifted or using gear

(C) Otherwise attribute gains made to gear.

It's old, and tired.

 

[spatts]

I'm just still amazed that someone thinks WSB is high volume. I train, what? 45 mins, 4 days a week, and usually walk away feeling like I did nothing at all. I shock the hell out of myself when I actually max a lift, because I don't feel like I train hard enough to warrant the gains I get.

Sounds like someone was doing WSB wrong...which wouldn't surprise me. You can take 10 guys that think they train WSB, put them together, and find out they all do something different.