My Training Journal

[Andalite]

Im pretty sure its the deadlifts. Iv been making an effort to keep my hips down and lock my legs and hips at the same time and I think I few times without meaning to I get the bar close to lockout and as I lock my knees I may slightly hitch the bar because when I did my 3rm, my deadlift session went great and my form was what I thought was great. And the hardest part was the last 2 inches or so of ROM on the 3rd rep, so I know my lockout is the hardest part. But last workout when I did the 286x8 my lockouts got hard, then as I locked my knees the bar jerked right up, so I think I must have been slightly hitching. And it was after that workout that my back started and it has just gotten worse since then.

Like I said Ill try and video it.

Yes.

See, I really really really hate to say "I told you so" but...I told you so.

When you develop bad lifting habits in relation to form, lots of little things happen that you tend to overlook.

Firstly, whenever you do ANY movement, it sends neuro signals down your nerves. So basically your motor pathway LEARN the movement. This basic subconscious retention of information is why you can come back to lifting heavy weights after a long(ish) layoff. Your body remembers the movement before your mind.

Now, if you have been doing the lift in a poor manner for some time, guess what? Your body has learnt to accept that bad movement to be good movement. So when you need to rework your form, your body is essentially destroying previous information and overwriting it with new information. That is why if I was to tell you to completely strip the bar to 135 lbs and work upwards your body would actually DISLIKE the movement for the longest time.

It's like fat loss. You know what they say about fat loss, right? The longer it takes you to lose fat the longer it will take you to gain it back.

Bad habits deserve the same analogy. The longer you have been using bad technique the longer it is going to take to get the good technique down - because your motor pathway are so used to the incorrect form that when you switch over they experience a long long lag time before the movement becomes sheer instinct.

So please, I know you don't want to listen to me and I know you are young (I know I have forgotten that in the past when presenting information to you but I am keeping that in mind now) and I sincerely think you should spend time to learn things right. If you are serious about becoming strong, learning to lift the right way is important.

And I know you met that strongman/powerlifter who is a PRO and he okayed your form...well guess what? It looks like he was wrong as well.

And this is not to say that I am right. I hate to be right at moments like these because keeping injuries at bay and making yourself as injury proof as possible is one of my BIGGEST goals and I think I would be one of the ONLY people to specifically NOT do something if it was to potentially injure me. So please pay attention to me and stop letting these professionals or e-gurus or whatever jerk your around. You've gotten injured twice so far since I have known you. The first time both SaiBoT and me disagreed with your form. You were adamant about being correct and you had all these resources which you used to argue against me. And yet here you are injured again. But there is good news. Usually repeat injuries heal faster and if you handle yourself correctly you will be just fine. So go back to the drawing board and lets work on the deadlift movement. I am more than happy to critique your videos and offer suggestions. I don't even need to do it publicly. I just want to make sure you are not injured again.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

andalites right the body learns a movement through neural pathways. I made a huge difference in my form in just a week because i was videoing it, so make sure you see yourself and drop the weight if you have to and teach your body the correct way.

Now dont be over analytical about it either. Youre not gonna have PERFECT form, no one does. B ut you can improve it to where you will be injury free by doing it right

 

[Andalite]

Now dont be over analytical about it either. Youre not gonna have PERFECT form, no one does. B ut you can improve it to where you will be injury free by doing it right

I disagree with this. You may never have 100% correct form but you most DEFINITELY get it to 99.999999999999999% correct.

Think of it like this: the better your form, for the longer time for more sets for more workload only means that when and if you decide to max out or lift something which is more than your normal range: you will not suffer an injury. The added work you have done and practice and perfection you have striven to achieve will act as a buffer zone and keep you away from injury and from compromising your form.

You may not have perfect technique but you absolutely must - and I cannot stress this enough: you absolutely MUST try your hardest to get it to perfection at all times.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

I disagree with this. You may never have 100% correct form but you most DEFINITELY get it to 99.999999999999999% correct.

Think of it like this: the better your form, for the longer time for more sets for more workload only means that when and if you decide to max out or lift something which is more than your normal range: you will not suffer an injury. The added work you have done and practice and perfection you have striven to achieve will act as a buffer zone and keep you away from injury and from compromising your form.

You may not have perfect technique but you absolutely must - and I cannot stress this enough: you absolutely MUST try your hardest to get it to perfection at all times.

dude wtf? not 100% but 99.99999999999% correct? Thats the same fuckin thing.

Youre saying your max is going to be better form because you practice form? No your max is going to be good form because the weight is not too heavy for your body to HAVE to compromise form, not because you are better at form. Of course if you teach your body to use bad form for workout after workout your body will adapt to it. BUt its not rocket science. You arch your back, chest high, and lift diggin your heels in the ground. Its simple. As long as you lower back isnt rounding you are fine.

EM doesnt need to do anything dramatic to his deadlift. He just needs to lower the weight and hell automatically have better form.

 

[b fold the truth]

I love all the down talk about the "Pro's"...lol. Funny, a 21 year old College Student is different than an e-guru or a professional.

Anyway...nobody asks why you are pulling 8 reps, to failure (you sacrificed form knowingly) without a power belt? Nobody asks why you aren't doing tons of pre-hab like HEAVY full ROM abs, leg raises, heavy back exts, heavy good mornings, etc?

On Deadlifts...even if I can do 8, I stop at 5 or whatever I know that I can do without putting myself in a bad position. When I pull singles, my form is always tighter, but stuff happens. Anybody who pulls the deadlift with their butt down low only uses 2 plates a side. Nobody with a big deadlift pulls with their hips super low.

You aren't me...but even on the days where it took me 30 minutes to get my shoes on because my back muscles hurt so much...I still went to the gym and trained. Even if it was with the empty bar, reverse band deadlifts, seated GM's (even with no weight) and reverse hypers 6-8x a day (using a 2x10 piece of wood across my kitchen counter). If your idea of fixing it involves doing nothing...then you are doing NOTHING.

 

[Andalite]

dude wtf? not 100% but 99.99999999999% correct? Thats the same fuckin thing.

Youre saying your max is going to be better form because you practice form? No your max is going to be good form because the weight is not too heavy for your body to HAVE to compromise form, not because you are better at form. Of course if you teach your body to use bad form for workout after workout your body will adapt to it. BUt its not rocket science. You arch your back, chest high, and lift diggin your heels in the ground. Its simple. As long as you lower back isnt rounding you are fine.

EM doesnt need to do anything dramatic to his deadlift. He just needs to lower the weight and hell automatically have better form.

Read my post again. I was referring to the mental attitude. If you approach a lift thinking "there is no way I am going to make this perfect so fuck it" thats a self-defeating attitude. That is why I insisted that EM must focus hard on making it perfect.

How do I make this simple? Negative reinforcement is bad. For example, lets say you have a form issue with squats wherein you tend to buckle your knees inward, ok? So, when you practice the lift (and by practice I mean training it) you should not be thinking "don't buckle your knees". That is a negative cue and a bad way to learn the movement. The right way would have been to say "push the knees out!" which is positive.

Similarly, I was referring to the mental attitude while approaching the bar. When I do a max out or lift above my normal range I don't go in thinking "ah fuck it my form's going to be sub-par at best". I know that when you're hitting 90%+ of your max you cannot have the exact textbook form at you do with 50% of your 1RM for example. But in your mind the lift must be pristine clear and the positive visual imagery should keep you focused and injury free.

 

[Tblock1]

I love all the down talk about the "Pro's"...lol. Funny, a 21 year old College Student is different than an e-guru or a professional.

Anyway...nobody asks why you are pulling 8 reps, to failure (you sacrificed form knowingly) without a power belt? Nobody asks why you aren't doing tons of pre-hab like HEAVY full ROM abs, leg raises, heavy back exts, heavy good mornings, etc?

On Deadlifts...even if I can do 8, I stop at 5 or whatever I know that I can do without putting myself in a bad position. When I pull singles, my form is always tighter, but stuff happens. Anybody who pulls the deadlift with their butt down low only uses 2 plates a side. Nobody with a big deadlift pulls with their hips super low.

You aren't me...but even on the days where it took me 30 minutes to get my shoes on because my back muscles hurt so much...I still went to the gym and trained. Even if it was with the empty bar, reverse band deadlifts, seated GM's (even with no weight) and reverse hypers 6-8x a day (using a 2x10 piece of wood across my kitchen counter). If your idea of fixing it involves doing nothing...then you are doing NOTHING.

I was telling him he should definitely use a belt for max attempt, ESPECIALLY if his form wasn't 100%. I do the same, usually I take around my 7 rep max and pull it for one set of 5 and it works great. One question for you though: When you say don't get your hips too low how low do you mean cause I have always used higher hips and used a belt but last session I got lower and went beltess and it felt great I got way more power, hit 385x5 (a 5 pound pr) easily, and best of all my back didn't round at all unlike before. I'd say my legs were a few inches above parallel before each rep? Is that good or too low?

Andalite you go on and on about form but I think everyone is very different. If:

1) You're not jerking the weight off the floor
2 ) not hitching or over-doing lockout
3) not rounding your back or overstraining neck (ie looking at the ceiling)

You are not going to get an injury. Now if you perfect your form in other ways and find what gives you the best mechanical advantage you will be able to pull more weight though

 

[ExtraMile]

Andalite:
Thanks for the information, like I said subconciously I think I may have been slightly hitching, and hitching is what gave me this back injury last time so Im pretty sure its that. I will be videoing my form again next time I pull and Ill video both a light warmup set and my heavy set so I can see how my form changes. I think I should be good to go on wednesday.

Btw, the guy who okayed my form in person only saw me pull light, He never saw my form when pulling heavy weights.

I have read about positive and negative commands before but now I think about it I dont really know what I think of while Im lifting, Im just concentrating I guess.

Gladiator: Yes your right, I doubt there is anyone out there who has 100% perfect form consistently on bench, squat and deadlift because there are simply so many little details.

B fold: I no longer own a belt, my belt fitted well when I was 175 but I have out grown it and never really liked using a belt or wanted to.

I was pulling 8 reps because I was setting an rep PR which according to bblazer is a big part of this program he has sorted me out with, I could have maybe managed 10 but I realised about my form and stopped the set.

About prehab, I used to do weighted ab work once every 9 days with 3-9 sets of 6-15 reps per set, but now Im just following what bblazer has said and only do 5 sets of hanging leg raises every 9 days on deadlift day. I also used to do weighted hypers but no more as they arnt in the program. I dislike good mornings.

Yeah I have a hard time keeping my hips real low.

What I am currently doing for my back is just resting it for the moment, taking hot baths most days and getting it massaged. Last 2 nights I have slept without a pillow which was some advice from SaiBoT and it has helped quite alot actually, my back is already feeling better today and Im hoping Ill be good to go by wednesday. I will just pull the prescribed reps for deads next deadlift day and video it and see what you all think of my form. I have pm'ed bblazer about it but havnt had a reply get so Im guessing he is busy.

 

[b fold the truth]

I was telling him he should definitely use a belt for max attempt, ESPECIALLY if his form wasn't 100%. I do the same, usually I take around my 7 rep max and pull it for one set of 5 and it works great. One question for you though: When you say don't get your hips too low how low do you mean cause I have always used higher hips and used a belt but last session I got lower and went beltess and it felt great I got way more power, hit 385x5 (a 5 pound pr) easily, and best of all my back didn't round at all unlike before. I'd say my legs were a few inches above parallel before each rep? Is that good or too low?

Andalite you go on and on about form but I think everyone is very different. If:

1) You're not jerking the weight off the floor
2 ) not hitching or over-doing lockout
3) not rounding your back or overstraining neck (ie looking at the ceiling)

You are not going to get an injury. Now if you perfect your form in other ways and find what gives you the best mechanical advantage you will be able to pull more weight though

I watched Anda's newest Deadlift video, and he has about textbook perfect deadlift form, in my opinion. A lot of people say that you should start with your hips very low and they even use Misha Koklaev (gosh SP) as an example, but when you slow mo his pull, the bar never moves till his hips raise. If your hips start too high, the lift is started with your lower erectors and hamstrings. Too low and the bar doesn't move as you try to lift it only with your quads. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I think that you were right to say that as long as the lower back never rounds (I say as long as you finish as you started...because mine is always FLAT) it is pretty correct.

 

[b fold the truth]

Andalite:
B fold: I no longer own a belt, my belt fitted well when I was 175 but I have out grown it and never really liked using a belt or wanted to.

I was pulling 8 reps because I was setting an rep PR which according to bblazer is a big part of this program he has sorted me out with, I could have maybe managed 10 but I realised about my form and stopped the set.

About prehab, I used to do weighted ab work once every 9 days with 3-9 sets of 6-15 reps per set, but now Im just following what bblazer has said and only do 5 sets of hanging leg raises every 9 days on deadlift day. I also used to do weighted hypers but no more as they arnt in the program. I dislike good mornings.

Yeah I have a hard time keeping my hips real low.

What I am currently doing for my back is just resting it for the moment, taking hot baths most days and getting it massaged. Last 2 nights I have slept without a pillow which was some advice from SaiBoT and it has helped quite alot actually, my back is already feeling better today and Im hoping Ill be good to go by wednesday. I will just pull the prescribed reps for deads next deadlift day and video it and see what you all think of my form. I have pm'ed bblazer about it but havnt had a reply get so Im guessing he is busy.

I understand all of that, they are just questions that you need to be asking yourself all the time. BBlazer is a friend of mine and we talk on the phone several times a week, internationally. He has made me programs before and I've just flat out had to tell him "I can't follow this, because my mind isn't sold on it" and apologized. And he TOTALLY accepted it. He isn't here for a while because he is on vacation cross-country.

In only my opinion, IF you are going for an ALL OUT PR, I'd wear the belt. That is when you decide that you are going for it all, no matter what, it can't hurt. I still do all my warm-ups with no belt (unless I'm using it to hold my suit up so it doesn't fall off me). I'd also train your abs hard, hard enough so that they are strong enough to handle a PR deadlift, 2-3x a week. But that is what works for me.

Every gym session I set up everything, asking myself, what is going to get me to a 370kg deadlift at the end of the month, and 372.5 next month? I have to have stronger abs, lower back, hamstrings, and butt! So...all my accessories are all about hammering those areas in a way that will make my deadlift go up.

But that is what is working for me...