Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Importance in order of bodyparts worked out

V

Veretta9

New member
I really want to put as much strength and mass on my legs this summer. Is there any significance in order of me lifting them on either Monday or Friday? My schedule would be as follows:
Monday-Legs
Tuesday-Chest
Wednesday-Sprints
Thursday-Back
Friday-Shoulders
Saturday-Running
Sunday-off
or

Monday-Chest
Tuesday-Back
Wednesday-Sprints
Thursday-Shoulders
Friday-Legs
Saturday-Running
Sunday-Off
 
I like to do squats on Sunday. The logic is simple:
1. I have had over 24 hours to relax and get work off my mind.
2. On Sunday mornings the squat rack is not occupied by curlers so nobody is asking me how many more I sets I have.
3. My Sunday afternoons are often lazy so I can work in a nice long nap.
 
Because with the sprints and running---they are getting more than just the one workout of legs---I am leaning towards working them out on Fridays because they will have more chance to rest--however I remember reading or hearing that working legs out on Monday will in some way help with upper body workouts throughout the rest of the week--any truth to this?
 
Routine would look something as follows:

Monday/Friday(haven't decided yet)Legs:
Squats sets vary week to week but I kill my legs with them
somewhat look like: 1st set 135 for 15 reps
2nd set 225 for 12
3rd set 275 for 10
4th set 315 for 8
5th set 330 for 6
6th set 275 for 8 reps for 1 1/4 reps

Leg Press:1st set 12 reps
2nd 10 reps
3rd 6 reps

Hack Squats(sometimes I'll do front squats instead): 1st Set 10 reps
2nd set 8 reps
3rd set 6 reps

Leg Curls superset with Barbell Lunges
4 sets of LC:1st 12 reps
2nd 10 reps
3rd 8 reps
4th 6 reps
Lunges are 135lbs for 8 reps each leg

Stifflegged deadlifts:3 sets 12, 10, 8
Finish with calves: 3 sets 15, 12, 10

I have to go right now--but I will finish the rest later
 
Veretta9 said:
Monday-Chest
Tuesday-Back
Wednesday-Sprints
Thursday-Shoulders
Friday-Legs
Saturday-Running
Sunday-Off
Click to expand...

I like this one you put up because its similar to what i do although i would switch your running from saturday to sunday....that day off after doing legs will do wonders and make your run on sunday much more easier.... physically and mentally
 
Definitely will consider it Dutch--

Chest Workout:
BB Bench 4 Sets 12,10,8,6(some days I will do 21's or 1 1/4 reps for a 5th set)
DB Incline 3 Sets 10,8,6
Smith Incline 3 Sets 10,8,6
Dips 3 Sets

Back Workout:
2 sets of widegrip pullups for 5 reps
Deadlifts 4-5 Sets 12,10,8,6,4
Bentover Rows 4-5 sets 12,10,8,6,6
Seated closegrip rows 3 sets, 10,8,6
Pulldowns 4 sets, 12,10,8,6(burnout set)
--Somedays I will add T-bar Rows in for 3 sets--

Shoulder Workout:
Clean and Press 4 sets 12,10,8,6
Seated db presses 3 sets 10,8,6
behind kneck smith machine presses 3 sets 10,8,6
Arnold presses 3 sets 10,8,6
upright rows, 3 sets 10, 10,10
laterals 3 sets 10,10,10

Sprints:
2 lap warmup
4 gradual acceleration sprints
2 side shuffle 30, sprint 90
2 backwards run 30, turn and sprint 90
2 carioca 30, sprint 90
1 30 sprint
1 60 sprint
1 90 sprint
1 120 sprint

Overall this is basically what my workouts will consist of---amount of sprints will increase over time and exercises will be added and subtracted throughout the summer but this is the majority of it---suggestions
 
Okay, almost there.

1) Can you also provide your current maxes in the squat, bench, powerclean, and deadlift?
2) Can you give me some idea of your age, training history, etc...

My inclination right now is that you'd do best by dropping some of the accessory work (or rotate them throughout the summer) and focus more on the core lifts. This will allow increased frequency, more total volume, and better results as there are maybe 3-5 lifts that you going to drive 95% of your progress so it's better to cut some of the crap and really hit these hard. Mainly though, I want to see if there are any glaring issues or anything else going on - i.e. it doesn't do either of us much good to layout a program that burries you in 2 weeks.
 
Never did a 1 rep max for squats because our testing in the fall is for 6 reps and I did 350 so.....bench 1 rep max is about 255---again never did a 1 rep max but for 6 I can do about 175---deadlift 1 rep max is 405----I am 23--been lifing hard for about 6 years--mostly during the summers because hockey takes up all fall and winter---but I lift during the season but its mostly to maintain what you have---the problem is I lose some strength every season and its like I am playin catch up the first half of summer--I am 6'2 have very long arms and legs so its hard to put mass on them---my chest and back are my most developed parts----what do u suggest taking out and adding
 
he veretta,

if you are training your legs properly there is no way you would be able to do sprints two days later. in fact, your soreness should really be setting in the night of that second day. your leg training looks good, but i think you are doing too many exercises. as someone else suggested, concentrate on the core movements and perfecting them. a good, hard day of squats should be with you for at least 3-4 days.

you are also going to find it hard to add mass to your legs if you are running long distances. sprinting will build your legs well, distance running will shrink them if anything.
 
On the contrary, if he's training them properly he should be able to do sprints two days later. If he's blasting them to failure then he'll have a lot of trouble sprinting but that would be a bad plan.

If he's working his legs properly as part of an athletics program they shouldn't leave him with soreness setting in. He might have to learn to live with fatigue for extended periods but he should be avoiding undue soreness by training more frequently with appropriate volume.

Your most important bodypart is in your head: "no brain, no gain" as one mag puts it.
 
yeah, but if he wants to build mass he's going to have to blast them, unless he's a genetic freak or summat.

maybe i didn't give enough consideration to his goals, buti thought he said he was after mass.

different kind of training i suppose
 
Shadow--I definitely hear where your coming from but my legs are able to withstand a lot of work--from the fall to April they are under serious strain from practices everyday and games on the weekend---so during my offseason they take a lot of work to really hit them---anyways I really want to put as much strength as possible, mass too--but strength is priority---2 summers ago I went crazy with the workload of lifting on them(at least 6 more sets than I have now) and ended up pulling my hamstring during sprints---I think because it was just too much on them--so as of right now I think I may stick with this--also I don't do any long distance running---the longest I will run is 2 miles---my saturday cardio consists of either a good pace 2 mile run or 30/60/90 sprints where I would run hard for 30 secs, walk 60, jog 90 for like 10 intervals
 
shadowhunta said:
in fact, your soreness should really be setting in the night of that second day.
Click to expand...

Just so it's out in the open, soreness (DOMS) is not required. It is not an indicator of a successful workout from either a hypertrophy or strength progression standpoint. In actuality it is a strong indicator that a given athlete is not adequately conditioned to the workload being applied.

A good way to get sore is to train with very low frequency i.e. let's say training legs 1x per week or less and then hitting them with excessive volume to failure. Great way to get sore but a really shitty way to try to get bigger or stronger. The vast majority of athletes on good programs do not exerpience appreciable DOMS on any kind of consistent basis.

I realize it's the most common way BBers train but there is a big reason why they rely so heavily on anabolics to see gains - even those very very far below their genetic potential. Take a shitty stimulus and magnify it's effects enough and you can still make gains - even though gains would be noticably better on a good program which would be night and day for a natural athlete or one with any type of performance criteria (i.e. non-pure hypertrophy) or one who can't live on drugs due to testing requirements.

Here are some dicussions on DOMS if you are curious:
http://www.fortifiediron.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=23534
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=8507
 
Verdetta - my little boy is screaming at me. I'll be back later today/tonight and try to lay out something for you. The info you provided in my response and to your conditioning level in the DOMS one is what I was looking for. Thanks
 
shadowhunta said:
interesting points madcow2. i'm not too proud to listen to others; interesting reads.
Click to expand...
We all start out knowing nothing about anything and gradually we learn. Those who learn the most and the fastest are those who are open to ideas that may challenge their current views. They may or may not accept them and build a new framework but they will certainly consider the implications and file it away if it has promise. I think the way you are going about it is the right one. There are way too many people who approach this stuff as faith and gospel and then get emotionally involved. Learn, learn, learn. There's a lot of good links in my thread here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 If you are interested in other good sources of info you might check this thread out: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4323293&postcount=3 There are some excellent books referenced at the bottom. Probably the best ever written on the subject of training.

DOMS is an interesting one because it kind of logically seems to make sense if you use programs that elicit this type of sorness one a consistent basis. It took me a long time to figure this one out. Be very thankful for the internet these days because your odds of every seeing this in a BBing publication is slim to none unless the entire sport starts to more closely value trainining knowledge instead of just relying on drugs.
 
Veretta9 said:
Never did a 1 rep max for squats because our testing in the fall is for 6 reps and I did 350 so.....bench 1 rep max is about 255---again never did a 1 rep max but for 6 I can do about 175---deadlift 1 rep max is 405----I am 23--been lifing hard for about 6 years--mostly during the summers because hockey takes up all fall and winter---but I lift during the season but its mostly to maintain what you have---the problem is I lose some strength every season and its like I am playin catch up the first half of summer--I am 6'2 have very long arms and legs so its hard to put mass on them---my chest and back are my most developed parts----what do u suggest taking out and adding
Click to expand...
Okay - finally getting back.

So a few primary thoughts. We need to get you strong in the offseason. Right now you are in a relatively detrained state as you mention always building up and then losing your gains during the season. We need to set you up on a good offseason program and then later get something maintenance that you can run during the season with little impact. You also mention that you are fairly well conditoined and I get the feeling you can handle at least somewhat significant loads.

So first off, being detrained, we need to get your lifts up to par. I have a good 3 day per week program that has been used for a long time for football players. It's squat based and you'll see a lot of progress there. Powercleans will fit as well as the deadlift although you can opt to do high pulls or clean pulls in its place. I'm unsure of whether or not your sprint and running/2nd sprint day are moveable or not but you can setup the days around these however you see fit and providing your heavy/medium day doesn't fall right on a max sprint day you should be fine.

Anyway, lifting is like life. It's hard to get good at a lot of things at once. It's a lot better to pick a few things that are really important and push hard to improve them. Since the core lifts will account for 95% of your progress, why bother with the crap unless there is something holding back the progress in one of the big lifts. You save some of your limited recovery capacity and you can increase load and frequency in the big lifts which results in more progress.

This is what I'm thinking, http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15 check it out and give it some thought. It comes from this thread: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 where there are some fancier things but unless you are already at the top of your game it's not worth periodizing anything as you'll get your strength back fastest just pounding away for a while.

It's only 3 days per week (more is not better) so you shouldn't have a hard time getting it to fit your schedule.

Give it a read, keep the powercleans on M/F and figure out whether you want to dead or highpull/cleanpull on Wednesday. If you have any questions just post them back here or PM me if I don't get answer it within a day or so.
 
Madcow2 said:
We all start out knowing nothing about anything and gradually we learn. Those who learn the most and the fastest are those who are open to ideas that may challenge their current views. They may or may not accept them and build a new framework but they will certainly consider the implications and file it away if it has promise. I think the way you are going about it is the right one. There are way too many people who approach this stuff as faith and gospel and then get emotionally involved. Learn, learn, learn. There's a lot of good links in my thread here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 If you are interested in other good sources of info you might check this thread out: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4323293&postcount=3 There are some excellent books referenced at the bottom. Probably the best ever written on the subject of training.

DOMS is an interesting one because it kind of logically seems to make sense if you use programs that elicit this type of sorness one a consistent basis. It took me a long time to figure this one out. Be very thankful for the internet these days because your odds of every seeing this in a BBing publication is slim to none unless the entire sport starts to more closely value trainining knowledge instead of just relying on drugs.
Click to expand...

much grats!
 
Madcow2 said:
[snip]
Be very thankful for the internet these days because your odds of every seeing this in a BBing publication is slim to none unless the entire sport starts to more closely value trainining knowledge instead of just relying on drugs.
Click to expand...
It's not really about the drugs, per se, for a BB publication. It's more about the supplement industry and the vast amount of advertising revenue that comes with selling an ideal which they prove to be attainable with the pictures inside. They profer a route and method to attain those goals which simply doesn't work and tell you that it's your fault that it's not working. You're simply not working hard enough and not consuming the right nutrients in the correct, precise ratios and quantites which only they can provide to you with their special formulation. People 'know' that the routines work since they're the routines of the professionals so the problem must be their's. They need the secrets of the professionals and then they see their idol with a bucket of green goop for only $49.99.
 
Thanks Madcow---this might be a problem---only hittin the gym 3 times a week--we'll see though--appreciate all the help
 
Veretta9 said:
Thanks Madcow---this might be a problem---only hittin the gym 3 times a week--we'll see though--appreciate all the help
Click to expand...
Are you required to be in the gym a certain # of days? I'd be really hesitant to add more volume as with this and a decent sprinting program that's already pretty taxing - these aren't exactly fu-fu lifts you are doing and it's a fair amount of work. More is not necessarily better and too much will quickly burn you out, but if a coach requires we can spread it around some to get you in there.

This is a pretty standard offseason program - if you really think you can handle it I'll throw more at you but given the workout you originally wroteup, I'm just not confident I won't burn you out in short order. The number of days means very little for your goals and purposes so the first thing I'd start doing is removing the pyramids anyway before adding extra days. Figure you are squatting 3x per week, benching 2x, cleaning 2x, deadlifting 1x, etc... - that's a lot. Most people can handle the volume in the workout I gave you. If you want to spread the existing volume around to get more days in the gym and meet a requirement, you can. If you want more volume per week, I can do that but if you are used to a bodypart split training a muscle 1x per week, in all likelyhood this will be more than enough and you'll see your lifts shoot up relatively quickly. Once you start the plateau we can transition over to a periodized type system. Why not try this and see how it works for 4-6 weeks. If I give you a program that buries you, that's a big waste of training time where you could have been making progress. Better to opt for 80% and gradually rachet it up than to wind up with 0.
 
Hey Madcow is it alright if I replace power cleans with clean and presses? Another question when doing the 5x5's for bench do I do 1 warmup set and then 5 sets that go like 1st set 135 for 5 2nd set 185 for 5 3rd set 205 for 5 4th set 215 for 5 and 5th set 225 for 5 or is it 1 warmup set and then 5 sets of like 205? sorry if this seems like a stupid question just trying to get everything right
 
Veretta9 said:
Hey Madcow is it alright if I replace power cleans with clean and presses? Another question when doing the 5x5's for bench do I do 1 warmup set and then 5 sets that go like 1st set 135 for 5 2nd set 185 for 5 3rd set 205 for 5 4th set 215 for 5 and 5th set 225 for 5 or is it 1 warmup set and then 5 sets of like 205? sorry if this seems like a stupid question just trying to get everything right
Click to expand...

Always better to ask ahead of time.

You can't replace cleans with clean and presses. It's just too much pressing with benching 2x and overhead worik 1x already and I don't think you want to drop the bench so I'd just leave it.

5x5 means you warm up to a target set weight for that week where you are using 205 for all 5 sets of 5 reps (205 is your example).

1x5 means that after a bit of warm up you increase the weight using sets of 5 until on your 5th set you are working with your target weight. You have some dicretion in how you ramp up the weights set by set so this serves as an adjustment to workload up/down as you need it.

Even though the lift is the same, you will have separate records for your 1x5 and 5x5 days (i.e. 1x5 is easier so will be more). You'll ramp these on independent scales so that you arrive at records in both for the final two weeks of loading.
 
I have been reading over the link you told me to click on and I have noticed it says to work up the weight on heavy days(Monday):

Monday – Heavy Day
Squat – 5 sets of 5
Bench – 5 sets of 5
Powercleans – 5 sets of 5
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted Sit-ups

Wednesday – Light Day
Squat – 4 sets of 5
Incline Bench – 4 sets of 5
High Pulls – 4 sets of 5
Sit-ups – 3 sets

Friday - Medium
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Bench – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Powercleans – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Weighted Dips – 3 sets of 5-8
Triceps and Biceps – 3 sets of 8 each


Key Features:


* On Monday, the weight for each lift is increased on each set of 5, from a light warm-up to an all out set of 5. For squats, something like 135x5, 185x5, 225x5, 275x5, 315x5. The weight should be increased evenly from your first to last set. If you are working up to bigger weights, say above 500, you can add a sixth set of 5 just to avoid making large jumps between sets. I’ll explain how to choose the top weight in a second…

So could you further explain---I do not know how to high pulls--we have never done them at school so...and also is there anything I can substitute for clean and presses because after squats I think this is the best exercise---
Click to expand...
 
Ok tell me if this will work and I think I understand how it works now----This would be my exercises on the days and such:(was copied from your sticky with a change in exercise from military to clean and press)

Mon......Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat.......5x5................................... ..............................3x3
Bench.......1x5................................... ..............................1x3
Row.........1x5................................... ...............................1x3

Wed......Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat.......5x5 with 15-20% less than Monday.................drop this lift
Deadlift.....5x5.................................. ...............................3x3
Clean and Press......5x5................................. ................................3x3
Pullups.......5x5................................. ...............................3x3

Fri.........Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat........1x5.................................. ..............................1x3
Bench........5x5.................................. .............................3x3
Row...........5x5................................. ..............................3x3

So to clarify the 1x5 is a pyramid of weight and the 5x5 is the same weight, right?
 
Veretta9 said:
* On Monday, the weight for each lift is increased on each set of 5, from a light warm-up to an all out set of 5. For squats, something like 135x5, 185x5, 225x5, 275x5, 315x5. The weight should be increased evenly from your first to last set. If you are working up to bigger weights, say above 500, you can add a sixth set of 5 just to avoid making large jumps between sets. I’ll explain how to choose the top weight in a second…

So could you further explain---I do not know how to high pulls--we have never done them at school so...and also is there anything I can substitute for clean and presses because after squats I think this is the best exercise---
Click to expand...

Okay, you have a different version below. I suggested this one because you were getting back into offseason lifting after your season in which you said you typically lose some strength and feel that you are always playing catchup in the offseason.

Anyway, I'll address this version in this post but some points aren't transferable. The dual factor version you have with phases should be implemented after this program when one is already in a well trained state.

High pulls are the same as cleans except that you don't rack the weight. Generally you can use 100-110% of your best clean. Explode in the second pull and as the bar becomes weightless pull upward without dropping under to receive the bar. A clean pull is where you pull to a heavy shrug and the bar becomes weightless but does not rise up much - hence more weight. You'll likely want straps for either as they can do a number on the hands even with a well calloused hook grip. Some videos here: http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm

The issue with the clean and press is that it is two exercises. If you want, do push presses on Wednesday instead of incline but there's too much pressing to throw this on top. If you want to drop the bench, then go ahead. It's a great exercise but this framework trains the presses separately.
 
Veretta9 said:
Ok tell me if this will work and I think I understand how it works now----This would be my exercises on the days and such:(was copied from your sticky with a change in exercise from military to clean and press)

Mon......Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat.......5x5................................... ..............................3x3
Bench.......1x5................................... ..............................1x3
Row.........1x5................................... ...............................1x3

Wed......Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat.......5x5 with 15-20% less than Monday.................drop this lift
Deadlift.....5x5.................................. ...............................3x3
Clean and Press......5x5................................. ................................3x3
Pullups.......5x5................................. ...............................3x3

Fri.........Volume Phase...........................................De load/Intensity Phase
Squat........1x5.................................. ..............................1x3
Bench........5x5.................................. .............................3x3
Row...........5x5................................. ..............................3x3

So to clarify the 1x5 is a pyramid of weight and the 5x5 is the same weight, right?
Click to expand...

This is a dual factor/periodized version which would be appropriate after you get your strength back from the season.

Wednesday is a hard day, I don't know how you think you are going to squat, dead, and then clean and press for 5x5. Question? Do you mean to clean the weight once and then press it 5 times? But you will kill yourself if you use this program (especially this version as Wed is damn hard) and try to do 5x5 at a single set weight in the clean and press.

5x5 = warm up and then do 5x5 at the same weight for every set
1x5 = warm up and then ladder the weight up through sets of 5 until you get to your target top set which is a heavy set of 5.
 
No I mean to do 5 reps of full clean and presses--Im not too worried about the squats and clean press on the same day---the question will be going from deads to clean and press---my legs are in really good shape---they will be able to handle the squat load--I don't doubt that---the strength I lose in season is upper body---my legs actually get stronger by the end of the year through maintenance lifts and all the skating---and I have been lifting for a solid two months so my upper body is pretty caught up---I think I am going to give this a try
 
Okay, definitely run the dual factor version here then: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4764723&postcount=381

If you want to clean you can substitute them for rows on M/F and follow the exact rep scheme. That's an option.

You can also substitute cleans or high pulls or clean pulls for the dead on Wednesday, that's another option. You can also combo this with the above in some way so that you are doing cleans M/F and clean pulls on W.

The main issue with doing Clean and Press on Wednesday (just fogetting about any cleaning on M/F for the sake of argument) is that the clean is going to take away from your presses. You will press more without having to clean the weight each rep. If you are worried about upper body strength this is going to affect your overhead work. In addition, it's just too much pulling volume after deads. Your body is going to be wrecked. Squats, deads, and clean & press in a single workout is going to be very taxing. Maybe with AM/PM sessions you could manage a bit better - maybe split it into 2 days. I don't know what to tell you other than many people with decent lifts dread the Wednesday workout in the loading phase and are at their limit in weeks 3/4. Very few people can tolerate this extra work and I don't know anyone that can set records in the 5x5 dead and the 5x5 clean and press after squatting 5x5 in a single session without almost dropping - unless of course their press sucks so it winds up being not very taxing. The other side of that is you can start it and see how it goes for you. It's easy to drop and just press from the rack.
 
Thanks Madcow---I really appreciate all the time you put in with your responses---definitely cannot wait to get going on this program
 
Madcow2 said:
Okay, definitely run the dual factor version here then: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4764723&postcount=381

If you want to clean you can substitute them for rows on M/F and follow the exact rep scheme. That's an option.

You can also substitute cleans or high pulls or clean pulls for the dead on Wednesday, that's another option. You can also combo this with the above in some way so that you are doing cleans M/F and clean pulls on W.

The main issue with doing Clean and Press on Wednesday (just fogetting about any cleaning on M/F for the sake of argument) is that the clean is going to take away from your presses. You will press more without having to clean the weight each rep. If you are worried about upper body strength this is going to affect your overhead work. In addition, it's just too much pulling volume after deads. Your body is going to be wrecked. Squats, deads, and clean & press in a single workout is going to be very taxing. Maybe with AM/PM sessions you could manage a bit better - maybe split it into 2 days. I don't know what to tell you other than many people with decent lifts dread the Wednesday workout in the loading phase and are at their limit in weeks 3/4. Very few people can tolerate this extra work and I don't know anyone that can set records in the 5x5 dead and the 5x5 clean and press after squatting 5x5 in a single session without almost dropping - unless of course their press sucks so it winds up being not very taxing. The other side of that is you can start it and see how it goes for you. It's easy to drop and just press from the rack.
Click to expand...
Amen to that. The past two weeks I've struggled to clean the bar for my presses and had to resort to the squat rack to start the weight from my shoulders. This is despite that I swapped out the rows in favour of cleans for M/F.

Regarding Wednesday in the loading phase, all I can manage is a nervous chuckle as I think of today's coming workout. Once the deadlifts are finished, coherent thought and focussed lifting becomes hard.
 
Veretta9 said:
Ahhh...one last question---what would be your take on me taking a type of CEE supplement during this program?
Click to expand...

I'm not a good acronym person and I haven't really followed the supplement world in at least 8 years. What's a CEE?
 
Madcow2 said:
I'm not a good acronym person and I haven't really followed the supplement world in at least 8 years. What's a CEE?
Click to expand...
It's the new creatine delivery method: Creatine Ethyl Ester
 
Veretta9 said:
Well ya got me amped to start this program---thanks doggy
Click to expand...

I'm excited for you. Believe me, everyone here by week 2/3 could already feel their body changing, knew that they were getting much strong, more powerful, and growing. It's almost like the first time you deadlift, clean, or squat - you just kind of know that they work really well. Be sure to post back and let us know how you are doing on it.
 
yes madcow is right, im in week 4 and even though im at the brink of overtraining i feel huge a powerful.
You'll also notice your smaller muscles groups growing like crazy too. My rear delts and serrattus muscles are popping out. Muscles in my forearms that i didnt even know i had are starting to show too.

good luck bro, i hope you like this program as much as me!
 
Madcow---is doing sprints tomorrow, and every tuesday gonna be too much for me to do? I need to do sprints at some point in the week--when could I incorporate them?
 
Whenever. I'd probably do Tuesday/ Thursday/ or Saturday. Not Sunday. If you were looking for off days. If the volume isn't crazy you could probably do some later in the day after lifting.
 
Just finished workout 2 and by the end of the workout my legs were shaking---another great workout---I did clean and presses instead of military---was a tough workout---just hope my legs aren't too sore tomorrow cause they'll be worse on friday then--hopefully my run tomorrow will help with that---enjoying this program
 
Week 1 done--was very surprised how much strength I had through today's workout---possibly due to my diet---but I flew through my workout---5th set on squats was challenging today--back was bending over on final set---when doing bench today I started with 1 warmup set and then went right into my working sets---sets 1 & 2 made me feel like I would struggle to get through 4 and then all of a sudden on my 3rd set my strength just shot up--and finished all 5 sets fairly easy---same went for bent over rows---Doing the set weight on Monday for squats seems to make Monday the hardest day---however Wednesday wasn't far behind---today was the easiest workout by far---all in all---really liking this program so far--we'll see how week 2 goes
 
Finished week 3---have gone up in all lifts except deads and clean & press---Madcow---this past wednesday I tried to up my clean & presses by 5 lbs---the first set I got---but the second set I only got 4 reps, so sets 3, 4, 5 I took off the 5lbs and got all my reps---also for the deadlifts I didn't up the weight because the hand on my skin was ripping off--it got so bad that I only got 4 sets done---I couldn;t even hold the bar anymore----The thing that sucks is that the rest of my body was more than capable to finish the workout----how much of a setback is it for what happened during this workout?
 
Veretta9 said:
Finished week 3---have gone up in all lifts except deads and clean & press---Madcow---this past wednesday I tried to up my clean & presses by 5 lbs---the first set I got---but the second set I only got 4 reps, so sets 3, 4, 5 I took off the 5lbs and got all my reps---also for the deadlifts I didn't up the weight because the hand on my skin was ripping off--it got so bad that I only got 4 sets done---I couldn;t even hold the bar anymore----The thing that sucks is that the rest of my body was more than capable to finish the workout----how much of a setback is it for what happened during this workout?
Click to expand...
Not too bad. The clean and press can fail for many reasons. I imagine you failed on the press rather than the clean which is kind of why I don't like the two part lift.

For the dead, use straps or gloves until you hand heals. If the skin is ripping appart, you have to let it heal.
 
Yeah your right---I failed on the pressing part----I am worried for tomorrow that I am still gonna be stuck at the same weight for clean and presses---but everything else still going up---nothing but praise to you for this program---just gotta keep taking in clean calories I guess
 
Maybe cheat on the press and turn it into a push press when needed - that's a good way around it if you aren't already doing it (even jerk a few if you wish). If even that won't let you get your volume just clean the final reps and forget the press.
 
Well I went up in my clean and presses and got all 5 sets of 5 with the weight I could only get for 1 and 1/2 sets last week so I am pretty happy about my workout---got all the deads too...good day
 
Well Madcow---I finished the 4 volume weeks---I feel good, putting up the most weight in all my lifts that I ever have---I'm ready for the 3x3---one question though, how should my lifts be during this deloading week? Should I use the same weight for my lifts that I just finished with in week 4 or should I continue to up the weight? BTW I am going to run the 3x week deloading phase--
 
Week5 weights should be the same as you used in week4. It'll seem like a breeze but it's meant to. Kind of like active recovery.

Have a nice holiday week. :)
 
In addition, depending on how you feel you can be more conservative with week 6 weights to give yourself some extra recovery.

Just recalling from earlier conversation, you probably have a good amount of time left in off-season. Given that you are already putting up fairly record or close to record weight, that should put you in position for a lot of progress into virgin territory and put you well into your best condition from a strength standpoint at the beginning of the season. Sounds like everything is going great for you. Wait until the deloading kicks in and see how much stronger you get - I'm assuming the workload was enough to fatigue you decently so the rebound should be significant. Level of fatigue this past week and the rebound are something to keep note of for the next cycle as you'll be able to plan it out better with more accurate weights and tweak ramping and overall workload since you'll have a better idea of your tolerance.
 
Ok---just to let you know I am the strongest I have ever been in all my lifts---couldn't be happier---had my first deload workout today---felt really nice to just have 3x3's today---now as far as the rebound and deloading---how should I feel? I don't think I am that fatigued---but at the same time today's workout of 3x3 felt really good---also I am due back in school at the end of august--can't use the 5x5 anymore once I get to school
 
Okay - you'll still make a lot of progress in the 3x3 portion so that gives you another 4-5 weeks which puts you right about on track for your return to school. Really glad this worked out for you, I knew that it would but it's always satisfying to hear someone really enthused and happy about their progress and what they've attained.

The idea is to get an idea of your tolerances so you know what kind of work capacity you have - it sounds like there's a good chance you can tolerate more but it's really hard to know for sure. It kind of depends on how you set your weights - generally the best barometer is your second run through (sequential so next off-season or some such wouldn't qualify) because you know yourself a bit better and with relevant previous maxes in all lifts you are really able to dial in the weights. Ideally, you want both week 3 and 4 to be new records so both are in excess of previous bests and it's a lot easier to do this after you are already up to level.

That said, if you really pushed yourself you know that you can be more aggressive next time in setting the weights. In being conservative (which is essential for a first run through because reaping 80% is a lot better than 10% if you botch the weights) people generally wind up with a semi-loading phase where they are really only breaking records in week 4. Two weeks of this pace with relevant maxes is a different story (ask anyone here) but assuming you were to tolerate a 2 week heavy loading period well with this volume you'd gradually start phasing out the 1x5 workouts and transitioning them into 5x5's. Maybe not all at once but several sets at a time (say 2 ramped sets of 5 and then 3x5 with the top weight) and then later M/F become mirrors of each other with 5x5 each although some people might still rachet one of the days down a bit at first to a lower weight. Since the squat is the biggest driver it's the one you want to be fairly conservative with. I mean, obviously the current volume works pretty well for you so it's not like it's so far off that you need to rachet everything. Basically, just something to keep in mind over time and the whole reason a training log is valuable (plus, your body will gradually adapt to higher workloads over time so you if you continue to train seriously over extended periods this is something that you will eventually have to account for).

Anyway, keep us updated on the 3x3 portion and how it goes. You should be really happy by the time you get to campus as a lot of people really enjoy pushing the weight up here after the volume phase.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Cut
Killed my workout today for 3x3--in my second week---did 205 3x3 for clean and presses and 375 3x3 for deadlifts----felt really strong in deads today---next week shooting for 4 wheels a side on the deads--hopefully in my last week or so I can do 225 for clean and presses--thats my goal---great workout today
 
Enough to know that if you are serious and want to really improve and get fast you shouldn't be talking to me. Check out the forums at http://www.charliefrancis.com/ - you will have to register before you can view. Charlie was regarded as one of if not the best sprint coach in the world for a while. Visit the forums there. You will find depth of knownedge on track/field, specifically sprinting, and their weight training area has some really sharp people there. If I wanted to get fast, I would go there. Too bad Monkeyballs is no longer around here and I don't know where he went, from our conversations he was a sprinter subject to IOC testing policies and that doesn't happen unless you are reasonably quick. Francis' classic Training for Speed is available in ebook format, linked below. Your library might have one too. You could also talk to the track coach at your school. I don't know if you have a big program or not but this can be a good source.

Training for Speed
http://www.charliefrancis.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=15

BTW - lifts look strong. I'm guessing that recovery and rebound is hitting pretty hard right now. Good luck on your upcoming lifts!
 
Thanks bro---you never let me down---my deads and squats are a lot higher than my bench---this past monday I got 260x3 pretty decently---gonna try for 2603x3x3 tomorrow----if I get that--then I'm going for 270 on Monday---I'm shooting for 275 for 3x3 by the time I go back to school---tomorrow will be a big test for me---bench has always lagged--but this program has made me the strongest ever for benching---deads I want to do 405 for 3x3--pretty confident for this---squats I want around 405-for 3 reps--this will be a test---clean and press I want 225--not sure if I will get this--I'm at 205 right now---couldn't lockout on my 3rd rep of 3rd set yesterday--but we'll see---but all is going well right now---I will keep you updated--thanks again for everything
 
Madcow---big problem---today in my 1x3 bench I could only get 2 and 1/2 reps for 270 for my final set---I feel like shit now---I haven't missed 1 rep on bench since I started this program---where do I go from here---not sure what to do for 3x3 on Friday now---Last Friday I did 260 3x3 and got all my reps nicely---this sucks I feel like a bag of shit---feel like I'm coming to a wall
 
I counted back and it seems that you are in week8 running the standard 1x3/3x3 intensity phase at 3x per week. It can get hard through weeks 8 and 9.

A few guys have stretched out weeks 8 and 9 to spread them over a longer time. It really depends on how you are feeling but you should be prepared to take an extra rest day whenever you feel the need at this stage even if that means that weeks 8 and 9 take three weeks to complete. Your comment of "feel like I'm coming to a wall" suggests that you might be getting loaded again and extra rest days should take care of that to some extent. Don't feel, at this stage, that a training week has to fit into a seven-day period and there'd be nothing wrong with seeing out the rest of the program with just Monday/Thursday sessions. Training ever closer to your maximal strength puts a lot of stress onto your CNS.

In your position, I'd stick with the day3 weight that you intended to use and then next day1, whenever that is, either use the same weight as this week or try to bump it slightly even though you failed the third rep this time. If you take the extra rest days then there's a good likelihood that your strength keeps climbing. It could well keep climbing even if you don't: it'll mostly depend how much you dig yourself into reloading.

If I miscounted the weeks and you are only in week7 then re-read the above in a week's time and next day1 just repeat the weight you failed on this week or try to bump it a little if you feel good.

Edit:
I like the way you ask either for me or for someone who knows their shit. I'm slowly getting there. ;)
 
Blut Wump said:
I like the way you ask either for me or for someone who knows their shit. I'm slowly getting there. ;)
Click to expand...

Hence the reason I didn't respond initially ;)

Anyway, I missed my bench 3 x 3 in Wks 7 and 8, I think. I just stayed there until I got it. Strangely, I got it on my warmup to my 1 x 3.
 
Hey, I just read this thread pretty much all the way through and I was wondering how the sprinting has worked out so far, it's pretty obvious that the lifting has gone pretty well as you commented that you are as strong as you've ever been(congrats, btw). This is in issue I've always struggled with when I've been trying to decide on a training schedule. And, I'd be very interested to hear what you think of how it's gone so far.

Just an aside, I had a roommate that was an elite college sprinter and they did their heavy squat day on the same day as their hard sprint day which was wednesday(Squats first, then two hours later they had practice). To me that seemed like i'd wanna shoot myself during the sprints, but the team did well, so something was working I guess.
 
Sprinting has gone really well---until today---my left quad tightened up a bit today--and I didn't want to keep running in case of pulling a muscle---been doing sprints on Tuesday and on Thursday I have been doing laps at the track where I sprint the straightaways for a short distance and jog the corners for about 2 miles--been going well until today like I said

Blut no problem just been recognizing your posts and you seem pretty knowledgeable about 5x5 now---Yeah I didn't know I could do that---I was looking at it like a 7 day period---I think my body needs a extra day's rest---just not sure when to take it--I just feel miserable when I miss a weight---Like I have a certain weight in my mind when I go back to school that I want to be able to get--and missing that weight yesterday set me off track

On a side note---next week is my last week of the 5x5 which will leave me at August 12---I don't go back to school until August 25th--what should I do those couple weeks to keep strength going--I really need advice on this
 
There's been no sign of him for a while. How have the weeks8 and 9 been? Did you decide to spread them out or tough it through?
 
I only did 8 weeks---I basically am taking this week off---on Friday on my 3rd set 2nd rep of bench I felt a tweak in my chest where it meets the shoulder---went down for the 3rd rep and couldn't even lift it off my chest---then on Sunday and since Sunday a muscle in my back has been killing me like I pulled it or something---anyways it was enough to tell me that I should take most of this week off---so I am going for a run today and planning on doing a chest workout on Friday because it feels all better as of right now

Blut you have any ideas what I could do for the next two weeks before I go back to school to keep my strength up for testing----in particular for my 1 rep max bench?
I was thinking about doing 5x5 again for the next two weeks before I go back to school---any ideas? Curious to know where madcow is
 
I'd continue with active recovery, I think, in your position. Do some speed work for the first week and maybe work up to some triples in the second week. Don't make any injuries worse though. Take it as an opportunity to try some exercises you've not done for a while.

Running a couple of weeks of volume might work too since you've taken some time out. Take it steady with the complaining muscles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
changing up my split routines
Replies
8
Views
950
zedhed
zedhed
Ratatata
Approved Log Ongoing Testosterone, NPP, HGH, growth phase Log
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
503
Views
44K
Tiger Salman Khan
Tiger Salman Khan
ChristmasTree7
Approved Log Transformation & bodybuilding- Testosterone Masteron Metformin Clenbuterol Retatrutide cycle
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
563
Views
41K
Tiger Salman Khan
Tiger Salman Khan
C
Bad experience / vendor feedback
Replies
12
Views
1K
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
ChristmasTree7
  • Locked
Transformation & bodybuilding - Testosterone Masteron Metformin Clenbuterol Retatrutide cycle
Replies
6
Views
961
Yuri1
Yuri1
Top Bottom