Androgel - What was the results? Worth it?

[njmuscleguy]

Weird ass shit started happening in the cardiac department for both my husband and I when we started supplementing with test. His HRT doc is a board certified cardiologist, too, so he's been through the whole cardiac stress test/nuclear testing and he's got a heart like a racehorse. I realized there was a dietary/supplement connection. As long as we don't take fish oil or coQ10 and eat a low fat diet we're fine.

Ok, now you got me concerned.... what does fish oil or coQ10 have to do with elevated heart-rate? I thought both were cardiovascular-supportive... the only warning that I know of with coQ10 is if you have low blood pressure to begin with. I've been taking fish oil forever... just started coq10 recently

 

[musclemom]

Ok, now you got me concerned.... what does fish oil or coQ10 have to do with elevated heart-rate? I thought both were cardiovascular-supportive... the only warning that I know of with coQ10 is if you have low blood pressure to begin with. I've been taking fish oil forever... just started coq10 recently

If you ever find out let me know, seriously. My instinct tells me it has something to do with EFA ratios and I think CoQ effects the EFAs (no proof, again, just a feeling). The other thing I've tumbled around is how cells utilize energy and the fact that testosterone has an effect on endurance, but I don't have enough knowledge to gel these ideas.

Don't fret, just if you get some weird fluttery feelings in your chest/heart or start to get unexpected tachycardia from exertion, drop the CoQ.

 

[jagerbombme]

If you ever find out let me know, seriously. My instinct tells me it has something to do with EFA ratios and I think CoQ effects the EFAs (no proof, again, just a feeling). The other thing I've tumbled around is how cells utilize energy and the fact that testosterone has an effect on endurance, but I don't have enough knowledge to gel these ideas.

Don't fret, just if you get some weird fluttery feelings in your chest/heart or start to get unexpected tachycardia from exertion, drop the CoQ.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

first cycle test enanthate 500mg ew, var 80mg ed no fucking problems. i think when i came off that cycle is when i started taking fish oil.

second cycle was test prop/npp, was taking fish oil, all kinds of stomach problems, anxiety, felt like bp, and then the fluttering bullshit started. then it seemed i'd be fine here and there and then it would pop up again. this whole last time i was running it was doing it. i'm wondering now if it's fucking the friggin fishoil. SONOVA BITCH. thank god i posted this and thank god for you guys's knowledge. dropping the fish oil. will start the test in a couple days again and see what happens.

 

[jagerbombme]

Weird ass shit started happening in the cardiac department for both my husband and I when we started supplementing with test. His HRT doc is a board certified cardiologist, too, so he's been through the whole cardiac stress test/nuclear testing and he's got a heart like a racehorse. I realized there was a dietary/supplement connection. As long as we don't take fish oil or coQ10 and eat a low fat diet we're fine.

Fucked if I know what's going on and it's got his doctor scratching his head too. There's a long history of cardiac disease in my family but husband's side, nada. It's definitely hormone mediated, but I don't believe conventional medicine understands enough about how hormones regulate bodily systems. Most doctors just don't get the concept of wholistic health (and I'm using the term to literally mean "as a whole system").

so do you mean you must eat a lowfat diet, or you must not eat a lowfat diet?

it's just crazy that 5mg of test would cause my heart to go fucking nutso like that.

here's what happens to me, tell me if it's similair what happens to you.

first i'll feel like i can feel my heartbeat in my breaths. not hard to breath but can feel it like fluttering in my breath. then, i'll feel fluttering in my chest and i'll check my pulse and pulse feels normal. then the tachy kicks in and it starts racing and thats when the ventricular chambers start irregularly beating cause the atriums in such chaos it's trying to correct itself. what's weird is i took an aspirin and some oj and it stopped in 15 minutes. i was low carbing, but i don't believe it's low potassium or anything. it's just the screwiest shit. test isn't supposed to do this and isn't even listed as a side effect from it.


until you told me this i had few guesses as to what it was.

temporary diabetic state induced from the hormones.

bp spikes, but it happens when i'm completely calm and i can tell when my bp is up.

OR thyroid disfunction due to elevated t levels fucking up the thyroid, cause it seems like it's centered around when i eat which is also when i take fish oil.
now, it's happened when i've eaten alotta fatty meat before, it's also happened when i've eaten none, but shortly after taking fish oil.

drinking until good and buzzed on test also gives me tachycardia the whole fucking night. no fun. irregular beats, tachy, misery.

i hope that's what it is. man, whatta beautiful thing it would be.

 

[musclemom]

so do you mean you must eat a lowfat diet, or you must not eat a lowfat diet?

it's just crazy that 5mg of test would cause my heart to go fucking nutso like that.

here's what happens to me, tell me if it's similair what happens to you.

first i'll feel like i can feel my heartbeat in my breaths. not hard to breath but can feel it like fluttering in my breath. then, i'll feel fluttering in my chest and i'll check my pulse and pulse feels normal. then the tachy kicks in and it starts racing and thats when the ventricular chambers start irregularly beating cause the atriums in such chaos it's trying to correct itself. what's weird is i took an aspirin and some oj and it stopped in 15 minutes. i was low carbing, but i don't believe it's low potassium or anything. it's just the screwiest shit. test isn't supposed to do this and isn't even listed as a side effect from it.


until you told me this i had few guesses as to what it was.

temporary diabetic state induced from the hormones.

bp spikes, but it happens when i'm completely calm and i can tell when my bp is up.

OR thyroid disfunction due to elevated t levels fucking up the thyroid, cause it seems like it's centered around when i eat which is also when i take fish oil.
now, it's happened when i've eaten alotta fatty meat before, it's also happened when i've eaten none, but shortly after taking fish oil.

drinking until good and buzzed on test also gives me tachycardia the whole fucking night. no fun. irregular beats, tachy, misery.

i hope that's what it is. man, whatta beautiful thing it would be.

You want to be eating low fat (or "lower fat" the focus is on not adding any extra fats and maybe trying to stick to more white meats and avoiding high cholesterol shit like eggs and fried crap).

Anyway, the feeling I get is awfully similar to what you describe. Feels almost like I'm having a heart attack, seriously. If it's within an hour of when you're eating and you've been low carbing, particularly if you're trying to consciously change up your EFAs (and assuming the cardio docs are saying you're okay), I'd try cutting the fish oil out. I'm interested from a purely empirical viewpoint, but if you find your symptoms are go away then maybe we could get a couple of the people who are more smarter about hormones to start thinking about this, we may be onto something.

I get tachycardia from the weirdest shit plus another feeling, I don't know what it's called (you may even be describing it in your own way) the best way I can describe it is I'm ACUTELY aware of my heartbeat, it feels WAY too forceful (in a bad way). The term I use is that it feels like my heart is beating out of my chest. This was happening when I was playing around with my EFAs (trying to take in more flaxseed oil, plus fish oil and CoQ at bedtime). I get a very similar feeling if I drink NONorganic wines. It's not a sulfite allergy, because I can drink ANY type of organic wine. I've know I have chemical sensitivity (that's another health problem conventional docs laugh at) so there is some type of fertilizer or pesticide they use on regular grapes that sets off this reaction. I remember one night I had two mouthfuls of champagne at New Years just before bed I woke up an hour or two later with my heart going haywire, I took my pulse and it was 125, bear in mind, at the time I was doing regular serious cardio so that was almost twice what my resting heart rate was. I bring this up because you can get weird cardio shit going on with oddball allergies.

It COULD be your thyroid, but you'd generally have other things going on if your thyroid was going out of whack (you'd be too cold, or too hot, or your hands would shake or your hair would be falling out or you'd be getting fat or losing weight, shit like that).

As to the low dose of test, I take a LOT less than you, AND I'm a woman (estrogen is naturally cardio protective) so I'm not in the least bit surprised that 5 mg of test is causing problems. I don't think it's the amount of test, I think it's the age of the user (I think there's an enzyme or hormone or something we may not have as much of as we used to) and also the regularity of the use. People who are on HRT don't take breaks where they cycle off.

I wouldn't be tossing out ideas except for the fact you've got a relationship with a cardio doc and have been tested and have no answers, it allows for some creativity of thought that doesn't put your life at risk Normally you got weird heart shit going on it's "Get thee to the emergency room." But when you've done the stress tests and all that good shit and they're saying you're okay, and you're getting weird crap that has a pattern ... well, like Holmes said, "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

 

[jagerbombme]

i don't think it's the wine per say, as much as just the alcohol irritating you. sometimes it does it to me when i drink, sometimes it don't. i donno. i'm gonna quit the supplements for a while. just gonna take a b complex vitamin for energy. after i eat and when it happens though, as you say, my body heat goes way up. i feel like i'm in a sauna. it's crazy. and then my heart does that shit. and yes, i'm very aware of the heartbeat. yes it feels like it's beating outta my chest. i wore a holter monitor and my average bpm i think is like 55 and alotta the time it's under 50bpm. i'm 31, male, 18 percent bodyfat. i can elevate my heartrate to 160 and keep it there as long as i want. well lets just say i can keep it there for 30 minutes with no problem. the only problem is the time i dedicate to cardio. i hit it on average 4X per week ranging from 15 minutes to 30 minutes. i do cardio in morning on empty stomach on weekends. i know my bf is high but i'm in decent shape. everyone at my work thinks im in excellent shape. maybe to the norm, but here i'm outta shape, hehe. but i'm trying to cut.

is there an anabolic that you know of that doesn't do this to you. for instance i want to run Primobolan - methenolone - , could i run Primobolan - methenolone - alone and not worry about this? or NPP - Nandrolone PhenylPropionate - ? Anavar - oxandrolone - ? trenbolone?

ill tell you, igf did the same thing to me. Dianabol - methandrostenolone - and Turanabol did not however, i cannot live on Dianabol - methandrostenolone - and Turanabol. hehe. i'll be a walking heart attack quickly.

also, i've been to the ER like 10X for this. hehe, it freaks me the fuck out and i think i'm having a heart attack, ekg always shows good and they look puzzled at me and give me xanax.

 

[musclemom]

i don't think it's the wine per say, as much as just the alcohol irritating you. sometimes it does it to me when i drink, sometimes it don't. i donno. i'm gonna quit the supplements for a while. just gonna take a b complex vitamin for energy...

... also, i've been to the ER like 10X for this. hehe, it freaks me the fuck out and i think i'm having a heart attack, ekg always shows good and they look puzzled at me and give me xanax.

Just take a good multi and a good B and you should be golden.

As for the alcohol irritating me, oh, no I can assure you, I've basically spent the past week blotto on vacation, so it's not that. It's organic versus organic wine, seriously.

I'm NOT a steroid person, lots of better people to talk to about that stuff. I only know a teensy, tiny bit about how test. effects me and my husband and only on the HRT level, that's IT, and a little about female hormones in terms of perimenopausal stuff. I do know one thing, you need to figure out what's going on with your body before you do any more cycles. Give yourself 48 hours off the fish oil and see what happens. If you're still getting weird problems I strongly advise that you get a digital thermometer. The next episode take your temperature when it happens, if you're breaking 100 or more you probably need to go to the ER while the episode is happening, tell them you suspect thyroid problems, get them to record what your body is doing. If your body temp is actually going up then it's definitely metabolic, potentially thyroid.

 

[jagerbombme]

Just take a good multi and a good B and you should be golden.

As for the alcohol irritating me, oh, no I can assure you, I've basically spent the past week blotto on vacation, so it's not that. It's organic versus organic wine, seriously.

I'm NOT a steroid person, lots of better people to talk to about that stuff. I only know a teensy, tiny bit about how test. effects me and my husband and only on the HRT level, that's IT, and a little about female hormones in terms of perimenopausal stuff. I do know one thing, you need to figure out what's going on with your body before you do any more cycles. Give yourself 48 hours off the fish oil and see what happens. If you're still getting weird problems I strongly advise that you get a digital thermometer. The next episode take your temperature when it happens, if you're breaking 100 or more you probably need to go to the ER while the episode is happening, tell them you suspect thyroid problems, get them to record what your body is doing. If your body temp is actually going up then it's definitely metabolic, potentially thyroid.

i hear ya, it always quits before i get to the er though. it doesn't usually last long when it happens. i've read on atrial fib and atrial flutter. it says most people don't know they got it. it's weird when i'm off, sometimes i can check my pulse and it seems like it's doing it although i don't notice the hb's. however with elevated levels of Test, it's very very very noticable.

 

[jagerbombme]

i hear ya, it always quits before i get to the er though. it doesn't usually last long when it happens. i've read on atrial fib and atrial flutter. it says most people don't know they got it. it's weird when i'm off, sometimes i can check my pulse and it seems like it's doing it although i don't notice the hb's. however with elevated levels of Test, it's very very very noticable.

well, it happened again last night, went to er, they caught it. it's premature atrial contractions. said it's nothing to worry about and to see a cardiologist to see if they can remedy it. good news is i had them pull my cholesterol, and my cholesterol went from 185 two years ago to 169 this january, to 113 now with good diet

good cholesterol was 43, bad was 60. total 113 so i think i got 10 of that other kind. fucking awesome.

 

[musclemom]

well, it happened again last night, went to er, they caught it. it's premature atrial contractions. said it's nothing to worry about and to see a cardiologist to see if they can remedy it. good news is i had them pull my cholesterol, and my cholesterol went from 185 two years ago to 169 this january, to 113 now with good diet

good cholesterol was 43, bad was 60. total 113 so i think i got 10 of that other kind. fucking awesome.

Do I understand you to say your total cholesterol is 113, your LDL is 60 and HDL cholesterol is 43? Wow.

Okay, remember I said I'm no expert, and I'm just bouncing ideas but I wonder if it's the fact your levels are SO low ... hormones are transported by cholesterol. There were a few studies linking some anxiety problems and low cholesterol ... PACs (which is what you're having) have been linked to anxiety issues.