after 1AD... clomid? Trib? ZMA?

[manny78]

I get 24 clomid for $10. That means my nuts are hanging again after only about $15 spent. I doubt PA's product will be cheaper, but more effective, maybe.

I doubt too. Plus I also doubt it will be more effective. Clomids are easy to get, few sides on most of us and cheap, compared to some crap like Tribulus for example. Trib can actually work but you need a lot of it and you will end up spending 2-3 times more than on clomids.....

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

Clomid is an anti-estrogen (read above).

- Bill

 

[pa1ad]

Re: Re: Re: after 1AD... clomid? Trib? ZMA?

Hi Pat,

Does this work via a different mechanism than opposing estrogen to increase LH? I ask because anti-estrogens and aromatase inhibitors do not realy help you restore testosterone production post cycle.


- Bill

that is a pretty general statement bill. I might agree to it in regards to drastic shutdown due to long term abuse but I definitely disagree in regards to recovery after short cycles in occasional users.

 

[manny78]

Clomid is an anti-estrogen (read above).

- Bill

so you're basically telling me that my post-cycle recovery with clomids were all in my head ? I was just having hallucination ? Come on, blood works dont lie...

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: after 1AD... clomid? Trib? ZMA?

that is a pretty general statement bill. I might agree to it in regards to drastic shutdown due to long term abuse but I definitely disagree in regards to recovery after short cycles in occasional users.

The body doesn't need help raising LH. LH levels rise and fall rapidly, in direct relation to sex steroid levels. The weak link in the HPTA is the testes, which can't respond well to LH due to artophy. This is the whole problem post cycle, not increasing LH.

Anti-estrogens/aromatase inhibitors do a good job of stimulating the HPTA when it is intact and there are normal estrogen levels, but do little post cycle, regardless of the length of drug use. If there are high LH levels already, and little estrogen to deal with in the first place because T is suppressed, how would these types of drugs do anything of value?


- Bill

 

[blackdream71]

something completely new that you have never heard of

sounds interesting i will definitely try it out.....

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

so you're basically telling me that my post-cycle recovery with clomids were all in my head ? I was just having hallucination ? Come on, blood works dont lie...

That is exactly what I am saying. What type of blood work have you had done? Just noticing that you testosterone levels are back to normal post cycle doesn't qualify as a valid comparative study. They come back on their own.

 

[manny78]

That is exactly what I am saying. What type of blood work have you had done? Just noticing that you testosterone levels are back to normal post cycle doesn't qualify as a valid comparative study. They come back on their own.

So what are you suggesting as a "comparative study" ? Anyway as far as I'm concern, and I'm not the only one, I know that clomids have always worked pretty well. If I keep my gains and my sex drive why should I complain ? There's no miracle drug I agree, but some seem to work better than others. Cant say the same with tribulus....

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Maybe your theory (it is just that--a theory) about anti-e's not speeding up post-cycle recovery holds some water. But using arimidex can prevent post cycle gyno that often occurs in steroid users. No supplements that you shills can come up with will ever do anything to speed up post cycle recovery if clomiphene and arimidex wont, though. Keep the dreams alive, guys.

 

[pa1ad]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: after 1AD... clomid? Trib? ZMA?

The body doesn't need help raising LH. LH levels rise and fall rapidly, in direct relation to sex steroid levels. The weak link in the HPTA is the testes, which can't respond well to LH due to artophy. This is the whole problem post cycle, not increasing LH.

Anti-estrogens/aromatase inhibitors do a good job of stimulating the HPTA when it is intact and there are normal estrogen levels, but do little post cycle, regardless of the length of drug use. If there are high LH levels already, and little estrogen to deal with in the first place because T is suppressed, how would these types of drugs do anything of value?


- Bill

This seems in direct contrast to everything i have read on the subject, and actual blood assays i have seen on suppressed steroid users. LH/FSH is almost always suppressed in these people as well as testosterone. I do not know where you are getting your data from. I am interested in seeing documentation of this Bill.

Also, there is literature that shows marked effects from clomid use on suppressed steroid users (with suppressed gonadtopins as well as sex hormones).