A couple of more HIT question

[Becky]

Thanks so much for the response to my HIT questions last week. I stated do HIT last week also and I can tell you I felt as pumped after it as I do when I do 4 or 5 sets.

I am going to give it a try for about 8 weeks and I want to make sure I am giving it a fare one so please comment on the following:

1) I am doing 1 warm-up set and 1 heavy work set of each exercise. Lifting 2 days a week. Is that what you do? How long should the work out last?

2)What type of Cardio are you doing? How often?

3)What type of results should I realistically expect in 8 weeks?

THANKS!

 

[DaCypher]

1) Personally, I don't do warm up sets at all. I find they fatigue the muscles too much (even with very light weight) before the real set. A lot of guys like warm up sets, so its really up to you. Try a few workouts with warmsup and a few without, see what you prefer. I find a few minutes on the stationary bike before a workout to get the blood flowing works well for me.

2) I do cardio 3 times a week on my off days. Usually do about 30-45 minutes on stationary bike or sometimes some other, somewhat more exotic equipment that my gym has. Also, check out this link on cyberpump.com which talks about cardio and HIT.

3) Your results depend greatly on factors other than just what you do in the gym. For example, your diet will play a large part in what results you get. Therefore, its kind of difficult to say where you will be in 8 weeks. Personally, 8 weeks into using HIT I was seeing large gains in strength as well as size.

Disclaimer: This is what has been working for me. I'm not necessarily advocating that everyone should do this exactly. I also modify my routine somewhat often. For example, sometimes I might do a warmup set for squats, and sometimes I will do more/less cardio in any given week.

Anyways, good luck. Tell me if you want more info...

 

[Blood&Iron]

Okay here's my take(overly verbose as usual):

1)I used to be a 1-set, no warm-up kinda guy. I'd start with 5 minutes of light cardio and then 15-20 minutes of stretching before starting my workout. Provided you're using a sufficiently slow lifting cadence, your first few reps actually serve as your warm-up. In the last few months though I've dropped the cardio and stretching and do several light warm-up sets instead. I'd agree with DaCypher as far as warm-ups detracting from your work-set, but only if you don't rest long enough between sets. Typically I'll rest as long as 3-5 minutes between my final warm-up and my work-set. This is certainly counter to many HIT advocates, who feel rest should be minimal, and you won't get the metabolic effects you get when moving quickly between exercises. But I've found this works better for me, as least in terms of muscle building.

You failed to mention whether you are doing an upper-lower split or two full-body workouts. Anyways, lifting two days a week is probably the average for most HITters. Currently I lift 3 days a week.

A HIT workout can last anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. But more than an hour is generally a bad idea.

2)Many HITters think cardio is counter-productive to building muscle. I don't do any unless dieting and even then keep it minimal(I walk on a treadmill at a 15 degree angle at about 3mph for 30min.) It probably won't be too much of a problem provided you keep it reasonable, i.e. 20-30 minutes 2-3 times a week, and it is good for your general health.

3)You results depend on a large number of factors: your diet, the intensity you put forth in the gym, your genetics, and whether you were overtraining prior to beginning HIT.

As with everything these are merely my experiences and the opinions of people whom I respect. Experiment and find what works for you. I've, for example, found that the long TULs, e.g. 1 min, suggested by many don't work as well for me as TULs of 15-30 seconds.

Hope this helps.

 

[Grizzly]

Ok, let me preface this by saying that I think that HIT is the most over-hyped, bullshit workout strategy ever employed. Therefore, I am biased. However, let me point you to this month's POWERMAG. Ok, so it has terrible editing and I counted numerous errors, around 30, but it still has good writing and a good knowledge base. Anyway, Fred Hatfield's article was all about debunking Mentzer. He did a GOOD job. Ok, so now ya'll people will argue that it's a simple difference of opinion. I have to admit that I disagree with Hatfield on many points, however, let's look at who's "da man" and who's "a man." Hatfield held the world record in the squat for, what, a decade? What record did Mentzer ever hold? NOTHING! It seems to me that Hatfield should be much more respected than Mentzer any day of the week. Now, I know that PLifting and bodybuilding are completely different, hence my disagreement with good ol' Fred, but, if Freddy were to have lost about 30 pounds he would have had a much better physique than Mentzer's srawny ass any day of the week. Hence, listen to Fred Hatfield Phd. becaus he obviously knows a hell of a lot more than that hack Mike Mentzer. Therefore, HIT is BULLSHIT! And I will stand by that statement for ever and ever and ever. HIT is for people who want to say that they are bodybuilders but don't want to put in the time. What kind of bodybuilder lifts once every 1-2 weeks. That's garbage. There's a reason that all, and I repeat, ALL Olympians train 4-6 days week. It's because it works!

 

[DaCypher]

Grizzly,

First of all, because HIT isn't a very well known workout philosophy, not many people use it or even tried it. Therefore there are less people to compare HIT style to other, more traditional styles which bias the results.

Also, just because HIT style is not for you, does not mean it doesn't work. How can you explain that HIT is working for me along with many others?

I also find it interesting that people that don't use HIT often instigate these arguments. You rarely see a HITer trying to convert a non-HITer.

 

[Milford Jenings]

Grizzly,

Have you ever tried to use HIT principles in your workouts for a sufficient period of time to see actual results? If you have and they did not work for you then quit reading now. If you have not read on.

HIT, while not typical of the masses, is a lifestyle. It needs to be built into everything that you do. Bodybuilding and powerlifting are two very different sports but they both require dedication, diet and hard work to attain their respective goals. Mike Mentzer was not a powerlifter, but a bodybuilder with one of the classic, symmetric shapes that is all too rare in the sport today. Bigger is better according to most, but to me is grotesque and not at all appealing. I read the story that you read and walked away unimpressed. This is one man's opinion, such is yours, and should be taken only as such. I am a social scientist and in our field we have three criteria for evaluating theory.

1) Does the theory make common sense?
--HIT emphasizes working muscles till failure. There is no better way to make your body grow than wearing it out. HIT also emphasizes resting completely before lifting again. There is no better way to help the body recover than while at rest. So does HIT make sense? Yes

2) Do the experts agree?
--HIT is not widely agreed upon, but that is due to an under-representation that DaCypher pointed out. However, most strength coaches, and a lot of the body-builders I have gained entree to do agree that it is a valid set of principles. So do the experts agree? Yes

3) Is there supporting literature?
--There have been several studies to compare and contrast the classic volume and HIT philosophies, and for the most part, HIT participants did better on average in not only strength and size gains, but also in general health. Is there supporting literature? Yes

In society today, people are all too happy to take information on authority, or just because he said so. This is what is wrong with most people wanting to get bigger or stronger. They take the advice of someone that they have given authority to without weighing it out for themselves and end up doing a routine that is designed for that person not him or herself. My challenge to you is to drop what you think and try something new. Who knows it might just work for you. If it doesn't work for you, then so be it. But at least try it before you call is BS.

I have spent a number of years (14) in the quest for bigger muscles, more strength and a more symmetric physique. I have tried many ways of working out. Many styles and principles have crossed my path but only HIT has produced the best results in strength, size and stamina.

So have you?

MJ

 

[Blood&Iron]

Grizzly-

Normally I'm a pretty affable guy, but you've made enough idiotic attacks that I won't reply with the usual civility. No one asked for your opinion. This was a thread from someone using HIT who had specific questions for people who have employed this type of training. As you are NOT such an individual your comments are both rude and undesired. Perhaps you should take some time away from bodybuilding and work on your social skills.

Ok, let me preface this by saying that I think that HIT is the most over-hyped, bullshit workout strategy ever employed. Therefore, I am biased.

Biased? Now why do you say that? Anyways, how did you come to this conclusion? Experience? I doubt it.

However, let me point you to this month's POWERMAG. Ok, so it has terrible editing and I counted numerous errors, around 30, but it still has good writing and a good knowledge base. Anyway, Fred Hatfield's article was all about debunking Mentzer. He did a GOOD job. Ok, so now ya'll people will argue that it's a simple difference of opinion. I have to admit that I disagree with Hatfield on many points, however, let's look at who's "da man" and who's "a man." Hatfield held the world record in the squat for, what, a decade?

And a big, strong guy ALWAYS equals an intelligent trainer. It has nothing to do with genetics. Why then aren't all of Hatfield's disciples record holders in the squat?

What record did Mentzer ever hold? NOTHING!

Wow! He was never Miss America either. Considering the fact he didn't compete as a powerlifter it would be sort of difficult for him to hold any PL records.

It seems to me that Hatfield should be much more respected than Mentzer any day of the week. Now, I know that PLifting and bodybuilding are completely different, hence my disagreement with good ol' Fred, but, if Freddy were to have lost about 30 pounds he would have had a much better physique than Mentzer's srawny ass any day of the week.

Since when is Hatfield more respected than Mentzer? There are many, many people who think Hatfield is an utter fraud. As for him having a better physique than Mentzer, I don't recall him ever placing 2nd in the Mr. Olympia.

Hence, listen to Fred Hatfield Phd. becaus he obviously knows a hell of a lot more than that hack Mike Mentzer.

Yes, a PhD in sociology--which is what Hatfield HAS--will make anyone an expert on exercise.

Therefore, HIT is BULLSHIT! And I will stand by that statement for ever and ever and ever. HIT is for people who want to say that they are bodybuilders but don't want to put in the time. What kind of bodybuilder lifts once every 1-2 weeks. That's garbage. There's a reason that all, and I repeat, ALL Olympians train 4-6 days week. It's because it works!

Yes, and they used to, prior to Mentzer, train each bodypart 2-3x a week, doing 2-hour double splits. Oh, and by the way, Dorian has always labelled himself as a HITter, taking his lead from Mentzer's writing, and even trained under Mike for a brief time. But you knew that already.

 

[Grizzly]

Yes, and they used to, prior to Mentzer, train each bodypart 2-3x a week, doing 2-hour double splits. Oh, and by the way, Dorian has always labelled himself as a HITter, taking his lead from Mentzer's writing, and even trained under Mike for a brief time. But you knew that already.

Ok, I was going to remark about Dorian in a different reply, but I'll do it here as well. Go to T-Mag. Somewhere in there there is an interview with Dorian. In it, he states that the whole "he was trained by Mentzer" thing is hogwash. It was convenient for both of them to let people think that and it helped out Mike's little gimmick. More importantly, Dorian is not a traditional HITer. He may have employed the several sets to failure method, but he trained a good amount more than HIT advocates.

As an aside, apparently we're becoming antagonistic towards eachother, but I have to say that you are my favorite fellow on this board to argue with. You might not like me, but I like you. We're having fun, arent' we? I am anyway.

Shucks, now I have to edit because I forgot something. Yes, I do have some experience with HIT. Not the traditional HIT training style, but the adapted Yates technique. I take every set to failure and many times beyond with forced reps and partials and whatnot. The one thing I do drastically different is up the volume. I do 4 working sets per exercise and about 4-5 exercises for the larger muscle groups (legs, back, chest) and 3 exercises for arms(that's 3 for bis and 3 for tris. Although sometimes it's only 2 exercises). Is that experience with HIT? Not the traditional methodology, but I do incorporate some of it.

 

[Grizzly]

Grizzly,

First of all, because HIT isn't a very well known workout philosophy, not many people use it or even tried it. Therefore there are less people to compare HIT style to other, more traditional styles which bias the results.

Also, just because HIT style is not for you, does not mean it doesn't work. How can you explain that HIT is working for me along with many others?

I also find it interesting that people that don't use HIT often instigate these arguments. You rarely see a HITer trying to convert a non-HITer.

Actually, I see HITers doing this all of the time. Many times I've seen it on this board, but most notably is that Drew fellow over on MESO. He's always trying to convert people.

Also, HIT may not be well known by many gym-bunnies and weekend warriors, but I think most hardcore bodybuilders know about it. Anyone on this board knows about it. And I would say that many have tried it. So, yes, the mainstream doesn't know much about it, but those of us in the know do.

 

[DaCypher]

So you incorporate some of it, but it is still "the most over-hyped, bullshit workout strategy ever employed"?