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Question for CoolColJ...

sean34

New member
Yo CoolColJ,

hey i ran across your post on improving your vertical and I started doing that jump snatch type movement (the one where your actually jumping off the ground) and Im wondering how high one should be getting off the ground? Im hardly using any weight ,10 pounds on each side, and Im only getting about 5inches off the ground. Im not sure if I should drop weight so im getting higher or will 5 inches suffice?

this lift is awesome!!! even with 10 pounds on each side...

Im tyring to get my vert to around 40 inches, right now its about 30 inches (@6'3"240 pounds). I have the explosion just need to work on the getting stronger and losing some mass :(

btw, thanks for posting all yur knowledge, you have been very helpful...

peace

Sean
 
5-6 inches is fine, its a move where I myself can't use a lot of weight. Remeber the Olympic bar is 45 lbs itself - I use about 80lbs. Its the speed that counts. As your technique and neural firing improves you'll be able to add more weight.

For real power you should do some jump shrugs. Basicly just hold a barbell with a shoulder width grip and squat down like your gonna vertical jump or you can start from ground like a clean pull/deadlift, and then explode up, shrugging the bar once you leave the ground. Repeat unpon landing. You can either go continously if you start from the knee area, or if you start from the ground, lower back down upon landing. Don't explode until the bar clears the knees or else your gonan have some bruised knees :)

You can use a lot of weight for this exercise and still get airbourne. Right now I use 150lbs for this move and I get about 12 inches up in the air if I start the lift from the ground. If I continue to improve in this move at the current rate I'll be using 225 in a few months time :)

Also do some jump squats with 20-30% of your squat 1 rep max - this is more plyometric in nature - so it should be continous

And last but not least squat your ass off until you can do at least 2 times your bodyweight for reps. Add the plyos and your on your way to 40 inches. If you find your vert not improving, chances are your probably overtraining - you need nerves to jump high!
 
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CooColJ,

Thanks for the response:)

I did jump shrugs today and I really like em...I threw on alittle more weight and it was all good.

The problem I think Im gonna have is fitting this stuff all into a program that body can handle and respond to. Trail and error here i come :rolleyes:

This is the leg workout I did today...

Jump Snatch 3x
Jump Shrug 3x
Squats 4-5x
lunges 3x
Straight leg deads 3x (with light weight )
abs 3x
crawl home...

I figure i can do this twice a week but I need to get some heavy deadlifts (well for me they would be heavy) in during the week as well. hmmm, i think i remember you posted your workout and you do legs 3x weeks so ill have a look-sey.

Also, I definitely need to lose some weight if I should be squatting 2x my body weight for reps. In my situation, that would be squatting 480 for reps and that aint happening. I reckon weighing 210 and repping 420 is more realistic for me...

Cheers,

Sean
 
If you're "trying" to get your vert into the 40's (whatever that means) you better start doing some plyos too cause you have 10 inches to go!
 
plz dont over lookd flexiblity. Its a big key in developing a good vertical jump.

Amazingly that most of your top Olympic Weightlifters have some of the best verticals in the world...iam talking 300+lbs with a 40'' vertical.. if that isnt amazing then i dont know what is.


lifter
 
OlympicLifter17 said:
plz dont over lookd flexiblity. Its a big key in developing a good vertical jump.

Amazingly that most of your top Olympic Weightlifters have some of the best verticals in the world...iam talking 300+lbs with a 40'' vertical.. if that isnt amazing then i dont know what is.


lifter

Really?? Do you have specific example of weightlifters who got 40in vert?
I talked to a french weightlifter the other day and I asked him about that. (by the way he clean and jerks 400lbs and 290lbs snatch) He said that among world class lifters 32-36 were probably the top because they hardly do any jump training anyways. He is 200lbs too... I mean, look at the 300lbs athletes you're talking about?`` They often carry a little excess bodyfat, there is no way they can have a better vert than track athletes. I think triple jumper have the best vert.
 
Well there is that fat 300lb 17 year old female OL in the US, 5'9" with a 30 inch vertical and 500lb squat! I mean she is obese...

also from Chad Ikei's article

Nicu Vlad of Romania, World Record holder and Two time Olympic Medallist, came to the United States back in 1990, with now current U.S. National and Olympic Team Coach Dragomir Cioroslan, for a training camp. It was here at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, that this 100-kg (220 lbs) weightlifter recorded a 42” vertical jump. Not to mention he was in weightlifting shoes, which weighs a lot more than tennis shoes and no formal warm-up. (Snatch 200 kg, Clean and Jerk 232.5 kg)

Wesley Barnett of Team USA, 3-time Olympian and Silver Medallist @ 1997 World Championships, have legs (especially hamstrings) and ass like a thoroughbread on him that most body builders would like to have. He has recorded vertical jumps of over 39” @ a height of 6’1” and 105 kg (231 lbs). I’ve even witnessed him dunking a basketball while jumping over my head, and I do mean literally jumping over my head which of course only stands a mere 5’2” but he straddle jumped directly over my head and dunked. (Snatch 175 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

James Carter, probably one of the strongest legs pound for pound, could dunk a volleyball on a regulation basketball court. He couldn’t dunk a basketball because his hands were too small; he only stood 5’5” tall and weighed about 64 kg (140 lbs). I’ve witnessed him squatting 245 kg (540 lbs), and that’s with no belt and no knee wraps and ass to the floor…A REAL SQUAT. He has also pulled over 500 lbs off the floor like no tomorrow. (Snatch 120 kg, Clean and Jerk 160 kg)

Mark Henry, 1996 Olympic Team Member, now known as “Sexual Chocolate” on the WWF scene, had quite a vertical jump. At 6’3” tall he could dunk a basketball, not to mention that he could squat over 1000 lbs and deadlift over 900 lbs. Now dunking a basketball at 6’3” doesn’t sound that hard, but take in to account that he weighed at that time 175 kg (385 lbs). Now that’s impressive for a big guy. (Snatch 180 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Shane Hamman, 2000 Olympic Team Member and current National Superheavyweight Champion, another big man weighing in @ 163 kg (358 lbs) but only at a height of 5’9” tall, can jump onto boxes @ a height over 42” high. Of course Shane was also known for his squatting ability of over 1000 lbs. (Snatch 195 kg, Clean and Jerk 230 kg)

also Serge Reding is purported to have god-like vertical jump weighing over 300lbs. Mel Siff also talked about a couple other OL with 40 or higher verts while weighing over 300
-------

I trained with Serge and this 'vertical jump' of his was achieved by starting
from a bent knee position and leaping easily onto a gymnastic horse with knees
bent to allow him to land on top. It was not the normal sort of vertical jump
test. Regarding those 49 inch jumps, I heard that they were achieved with
a run up and certainly not from a flexed knee static start. The 'Soviet Sports
Review' quoted strict static start vertical jumps of around 100 cm (39.4in) by
the
high jumper, Valery Brumel, and the huge 160kg weightlifter, Zhabotinsky. Mel
Siff ]

--------


National Geographic had a very interesting article about this a just before the last Summer Olympics. They talked about the explosive force Olympic lifters have. Many of the lighter lifters are former track and field
competitors (I remember long jump being mentioned). They also had a pic of Shane Hammon, the American heavyweight lifter, doing a vertical jump that was something like 3 1/2 or 4 feet. The article said Shane can slam-dunk a basketball from a standing non-running position. Pretty impressive for a guy who goes over 300lbs and is 5'9"! They also reported that being able to slam a basketball is not unusual for the US team. They concluded that the Olympic
lifters are probably the best conditioned athletes.


Also Throwers have very good vertical jumps as well
 
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ahh... Check out this article i just finished on olympic lifting and its MANY BENEFITS! I already had Chads stats from his "Pulling to JUmp Higher" article. A friend of mine who was friends of his passed them down to me from Az. here ya go let me know what u think.. this will be my first published article on the net. Keep in mind iam only 17 yrs old. But my passion for sports science is greatly out growing my brains ability. Iam just lucky enough to have one of the best Strength Coachs in the Nation to study under and learn from.


lifter
 
Inside the Weightroom Ways of Becoming a Better Athlete. (Part 1)


This questions has raised time and time again and is a popular topic of discussion in many messege boards. How do we become a better athlete? Do we know? Does anybody know? I will discuss some ways in which one can better prepare themselves to become a better athlete in sports ranging from basketball to football to ice hockey.

Goals are key. They are set to base your training program off of. Each goal, short and long, should be fit to help the athlete train for their specific sport. Make your goals acheivable and realistic for you depending on your weaknesses and your strengths.

Motivation and desire are also a key elements which you MUST have. What is an athlete with out any type of motivation or desire to become the best in the sport? Without motivation and desire you are setting yourself up to fail. You must have 110% determination to achive anything in your sport and the desire to never give up. These are many qualities one needs to have, not learn, to become successfull.

There are many forms of training out there that are said to be the best for an athlete. To some that might hold true.. to others it might not. Take bodybuilding for example, how many young teens are drawn into the bodybuilding hype of bettering their physical appearance? Many of them are drawn to it, believing that it will make them become a better football player or better track star. If you were to look at most of the top NFL, MLB, and NBA star's, they train far from bodybuilding methods. "Why?" do you ask? In every sport we have ballistic movments.... these range from running, jumping, jogging, and BELIEVE it or not walking. Now with that stated, many bodybuilders believe that all types of explosive exercises are dangerous and hazardous to the athlete. This is really interesting considering that Olympic weightlifing, one of the most ballistic sports, has the lowest injury rate per 100hrs trained then other forms of fitness training like bodybuilding.(Brian P. Hamill, "Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training," _Journal of Strength Conditioning Research, Vol. 8, No. 1(1994): 53-57) So by cutting out all explosive movements they must train the athlete slow correct? How would this prepare you for the field if its full of ballistic type movments like running and jumping? Considering that Power and Speed are the 2 most needed mechanics for athletes to be sucessfull, ballistic movements are needed to develop those attributes. The majority of bodybuilders have a high recruitment of Type IA muscle fibers. Type IA muscle fibers are also known as Red Fibers. They have a high tolorance to fatigue. They are also mostly recruited mainly by slow movments.(Siff, "SuperTraining 2000") The reason for this is because of the style of training they perform. Most of their movments are at a slow pace for a very larg amount of reps focusing more on endurance rather then explosiveness.

Now that I have shown you why bodybuilding is not the best idea for athletets to train by, we are now going to look at forms of ballistic training. Olympic weightlifting has been around since 1330bc in china. (Siff, "SuperTraining 2000") The Olympic weightlifting athletes have one of the highest firing and recruitment rate of Type IIB muscle fibers which are know as FT (fast twitch) fibers. These fibers are trained through explosive ballistic movments such as lifts like the snatch, Clean and Jerk,and powercleans. Here is a list of Olympic movments that an athlete could place into their program:

Clean and Jerk
Clean Pull
Snatch
Snatch Pull
Power Snatch
Hang Cleans
Push Press
Push Jerks
Hanging Snatch
Hanging Pull
High Pull


The successe of these athletes range from the olympic platform to the NBA. I feel Olympic movments should be a must in every training program for an athlete. There are many benefits that can be achieved by performing olympic lifts and some of them are:

1. The mere practice of the (Olympic) lifts [the snatch and the clean & jerk as well as related lifting techniques] teaches an athlete how to explode.
2. The practice of proper technique in the Olympic lifts teaches an athlete to apply force with his or her muscle groups in the proper sequences.
3. In mastering the Olympic lifts, the athlete learns how to accelerate objects under varying degrees of resistance.
4. The athlete learns to receive force from another moving body effectively and becomes conditioned to accept such forces.
5. The athlete learns to move effectively from an eccentric contraction to a concentric one.
6. The actual movements performed while executing the Olympic lifts are among the most common and fundamental in sports.
7. Practicing the Olympic lifts trains an athlete's explosive capabilities, and the lifts themselves measure the effectiveness of the athlete in generating explosive power to a greater degree than most other exercises they can practice.
8. The Olympic lifts are simply fun to do. (Drechsler, "The Weightlifting Encyclopedia")

It was made very clear in 1964 who the athletes were who had the best maximum speed and strength. In a field test at the olympics in Mexico City they found that the Olympic weightliftes could out jump the jumpers in the vertical jump and out sprint the sprinters in the 25m. This is extremely amazing consdering these athletes don't run or jump. The reason being for this is that these athletes (Olympic Lifters) have the ability to turn on as many moto units as possible and keep them firing once they have them geared up. Very sad that only around 1500 competing Olympic Lifts in the USA today. These numbers amazingly low considering other countries (mostly East) such as China and Russia have over 1 million competing Olympic Athletes are.

Examples of how AMAZING feats of the Olympic Weightlifter are:

Note: The fallowing Stats are from Chad Ikei's "Pulling to Jump Higher"

"Nicu Vlad of Romania, World Record holder and Two time Olympic Medallist, came to the United States back in 1990, with now current U.S. National and Olympic Team Coach Dragomir Cioroslan, for a training camp. It was here at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, that this 100-kg (220 lbs) weightlifter recorded a 42" vertical jump. Not to mention he was in weightlifting shoes, which weighs a lot more than tennis shoes and no formal warm-up. (Snatch 200 kg, Clean and Jerk 232.5 kg)

Wesley Barnett of Team USA, 3-time Olympian and Silver Medallist @ 1997 World Championships, have legs (especially hamstrings) and ass like a thoroughbred on him that most body builders would like to have. He has recorded vertical jumps of over 39" @ a height of 6'1" and 105 kg (231 lbs). I've even witnessed him dunking a basketball while jumping over my head, and I do mean literally jumping over my head which of course only stands a mere 5'2" but he straddle jumped directly over my head and dunked. (Snatch 175 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Mark Henry, 1996 Olympic Team Member, now known as "Sexual Chocolate" on the WWF scene, had quite a vertical jump. At 6'3" tall he could dunk a basketball, not to mention that he could squat over 1000 lbs and deadlift over 900 lbs. Now dunking a basketball at 6'3" doesn't sound that hard, but take in to account that he weighed at that time 175 kg (385 lbs). Now that's impressive for a big guy. (Snatch 180 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Shane Hamman, 2000 Olympic Team Member and current National Super heavyweight Champion, another big man weighing in @ 163 kg (358 lbs) but only at a height of 5'9" tall, can jump onto boxes @ a height over 42" high. Of course Shane was also known for his squatting ability of over 1000 lbs. (Snatch 195 kg, Clean and Jerk 230 kg)."

Most of you are saying, "Big deal its just a vertical!" In a 1979 study by Bosco and Komi (Bosco C & Komi (1979b) Mechanical characteristics and fiber compostion of human leg extensor muscles Eur Jo Appl Pysicol 41:275-284) concluded that the vertical jump performance is related to the percent of FT fibers. I think I have made it clear of the benefits of Olympic Lifts and the carry over it has to the recruitment and fire of FT fibers. Now I will show you more cases of how Olympic lifts help an athlete:

"Steve Bedrosian recently retired at the age of thirty-nine after a very successful career as a professional baseball pitcher, most recently as relief pitcher for the Atlanta Braves. His career had very nearly ended five years earlier. When he was thirty-four, Steve lost some of the feeling in two of the fingers of his pitching hand. As a result he had lost the ability to pitch effectively and was forced to take a year off in an effort to rehabilitate his hand. Many baseball experts felt that after this kind of setback his career was over. It was at this point that he met Ben Green, athletic director at the White Oak Athletic Center in Newnan, Georgia. Ben put Bedrosian on a program of Olympic lift training during his year off . After six months of such training, Bedrosian added eight miles per hour to his fast ball and was able to dunk a basketball (something he had often tried but had never in his life been able to do). Steve made a triumphant return to the mound during the 1993 season.

A second example is professional golfer Cindy Schreyer. She was introduced to the Olympic lifts by Ben Green in 1993. After approximately eight months of training, Cindy increased her drive by a full forty yards, a staggering improvement for a person already highly skilled at golf. Cindy won her first PGA tournament shortly after this dramatic improvement in her drive occurred..

Derrick Adkins was a sophomore at Georgia Tech when he began to work with Lynne Stoessel-Ross, then the school’s strength coach. Lynne has been a national champion and a national record holder in weightlifting and has represented the United States in the Women’s World Weightlifting Championships. She has a strong academic background in physical education, having earned a Masters degree in that field. She currently works as and educator and strength and conditioning coach in Lubbock, Texas. Derek had already reached the international level as a 400 meter hurdler when he began training with Lynne in 1990, having won the Atlantic Coast Conference championships and placed sixth at the World University Games. His best time was 49.53 seconds. In less than a year of training on the Olympic lifts, he shaved nearly a second off his already outstanding time (reducing it to 48.6 seconds). An injury sustained during an unfortunate running accident hampered his training for more than a year after that. However, after recovering from his injury and resuming training on the Olympic lifts, he reduced his time by another .9 seconds and went on to win the U.S. Nationals and the Goodwill Games. More recently Derek won the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta." (Drechsler, "The Weightlifting Encyclopedia")

Now for the final words. I have wrote this article to help all athletes understand how to better themselfs in their training. Their are many benefits of bodybuilding for bodybuilding, but not for carry over to athletic preformance. Their are many benefits from Olympic lifting that DO have a carry over to athletic proformance. I hope I have presented enough info to show the athlete the right direction in training to be the best he can be. Very shortly I will have Part 2 "Outside the Weightroom Ways of Becoming a Better Athlete". I wish the best of luck to the athlete and hope all your goals and dreams become a reality.
 
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