PWO Shake Question

[JKurz1]

I do not believe in High GI for the simple fact that restoring muscle glycogen takes 36-72 hours. It doesn't all happen in the magical '1 hour PWO window.' That said I do agree there is somewhat of a window -- just not the mythical one lots of us have come to believe. Sometimes I do the oats/whey PWO while bulking, but I never have really exclusively focused on it.

 

[Lifterforlife]

The problem with most of these studies about pwo is that they are done in the fasted state, so this really clouds things.

I seem to recall one study that looked at real world or long-term mass changes, (this is what it is all about in reality), but most studies including what is posted is all acute protein synthesis stuff.

One well done study I have for instance suggests protein synthesis is actually at 109% at the 24 hrt. period! But then it did not address the issue of with or without pwo carbs.

The main idea is not so much glycogen replenishment, as this is rate dependent anyway, and the typical weight workout is not that glycogen depleting, in fact, nowhere near, so unless you are doing some heavy endurance exercise or some ass long high volume training, the glycogen depletion thing is not that concerting to us.....so what is???

uptake of your nutrients and thus maybe jumpstarting recovery is what is at issue.

The oatmeal thing has been debated endlessly on bb.com, one guy says it is ok, a guy that is in "authority", Allen Argon I believe, he is the "resident" authority, and because he says it is ok, then it has been adopted. This does not make it so, and they use one study to "back" this, and one only.

My personal assessment is how I feel. That is, I have said on these boards that you need to "guage" your pwo nutrient intake to your energy expenditure. For example, on a heavy leg day, if I don't take in a hi gi carb/protein shake very soon after, I feel like dogcrap for long time. If I do, I recover quite nicely and can go on with my day just fine.

If I do an all arm day, and take in the same hi gi/protein drink, I crash and burn, can actually "feel" the excess blood sugar and subsequent crash. This in the end is what it is all about, guaging your pwo carbs to your energy expenditure.

As long as you are sensible about it, such as all fructose would be silly, you should be fine if your dietary intake is solid. I would point back to my "old days" before we had the internet and all this science.

We knew nothing about hi gi, low gi, did not even have whey protein. We worked out hard, drove home and ate like pigs. Did we gain, yep...and I don't just mean me, all the top guys too.

Think abot some of the eastern bloc guys that still to this day hold records...I bet they were just glad to eat, and didn't have a clue about whey or casein protein. "Science" these days can mess you up as much as help you.

 

[Lifterforlife]

I was going to start a similiar thread, but I figured i'd post it here instead. What about Muscle Milk PWO?

I don't know why folks don't look at Muscle Milk as a pre workout drink as much as anything. Loaded with MCT's, which are fairly quickly digested and basically act like a good carb source, great for energy.

 

[JKurz1]

Pre bed for me.....personally, I need the CARBS Pre-workout as I feel this is more important than post!

 

[alex2678]

Lifterforlife and anyone else who's been working out for years:

Exactly when did PWO nutrition begin to get so popular? I remember reading some old magazines my uncle had from the 70's and there was just basic whole food eating bodybuilders who ate every few hours, trained hard and grew just as big if not bigger than the majority of people at any gym in the country. I think Arnold said he never ate anything immediately after a workout. Showered and layed out in the sun for a few hours then had his remaining meals. I personally don't really think any "theory" is set in stone and everyone has his own individual needs, but with all these studies and debates it got me curious. The health food industry wouldn't have anything to do with it would it?

 

[Lifterforlife]

Lifterforlife and anyone else who's been working out for years:

Exactly when did PWO nutrition begin to get so popular? I remember reading some old magazines my uncle had from the 70's and there was just basic whole food eating bodybuilders who ate every few hours, trained hard and grew just as big if not bigger than the majority of people at any gym in the country. I think Arnold said he never ate anything immediately after a workout. Showered and layed out in the sun for a few hours then had his remaining meals. I personally don't really think any "theory" is set in stone and everyone has his own individual needs, but with all these studies and debates it got me curious. The health food industry wouldn't have anything to do with it would it?

If you read my post, I indicated this exact same thing. I was starting my workout agenda when Arnold first came over here. He was relatively nothing at the time. I followed his career dilligently. I was a big fan of Franco Columbu, and liked Lou and Frank, Robby Robinson...I could mention a ton of the "old guys".

At that time, we did just as you mentioned, and I mentioned in my prior post. We went home and ate!

In the long run, it matters not what you do in some 18.5 minutes or some silly number post workout, it is what you do over days, months, years that add up to solid gains.

This is not to discount pwo importance, it makes sense the sooner you can get nutrients of some sort into your body, the sooner the recovery can ocurr. I believe as I have stated that to use common sense as to "what you need" according to how you trained. The more glycogen you depleted...i.e...endurance workout, multiple sets, high volume training, it would indeed make sense to have something quick uptake like simple carbs(dextrose for example).

****wanted to edit this to add....these days it seems if it is not complicated, it cannot be right! Do not make a thesis out of pwo, it is not that complicated, and shouldn't be.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

Lifterforlife thanks for chimeing in on this thread!!

So true:"these days it seems if it is not complicated, it cannot be right! Do not make a thesis out of pwo, it is not that complicated, and shouldn't be. "

We tend to overanalyze sometimes.

 

[alex2678]

LOL. Completely missed your post. (Scrolled down too fast from JKurz1 posts down to the bottom of the page) I agreed more with the Arnold era bodybuilders than anything else. Provided you're overloading your muscles with heavy weights and eating every few hours, you're going to have a constant flow of glucose and amino acids in your bloodstream regardless.

Of course Muscletech might disagree with me and say you need their "DNA enhancer" supplements to get the full effects from your workouts....

 

[gymratforlife]

Ill stick with the basics and drink my 16 ounces of gatorade with two scoops of protein powder and take my chances with that.

 

[Protobuilder]

Great posts, lifterforlife. Lots of guys hit the KFC or Chinese Buffet on the way home and they grow just fine. I've heard it said a million times that if people spent 1/10 the energy on the rest of their daily diet as they do on that damn window, they'd be huge. LoL