My Training Journal

[ExtraMile]

My "bulking" is as follows

high carb days
350g protein
160-170g carbs
70-80g fat

low carb days
350g protein
60-70g carbs
130-150g fat

however since eating like that my metabolism and appetite kicked up a notch and lately (before sickness) I was going over 400g protein most days

all my carbs come from fruit and veg. Occassionally I use oats but only once a week or so.

That protein is only quality protein too, joe d refuses to count any protein in nuts or grains. As far as he is concerned the only protein is in meat, eggs and milk. So that is how I look at it too.

I don't drink milk either.

Before I got sick each day I was clearing a couple of pounds of meat, over a dozen eggs, upwards of 10 items of fruit (on high carb days) and as much veg as I could manage. I had 2-3 servings of veg at every meal.

I finished dieting just before Xmas at 168.5lbs and started on the "bulking" diet around new years. So I've gained 5lbs or there abouts in 6 weeks of dieting or there abouts. I'll have to check my training log to see exactly.

I know what your saying though, I'm not gaining massive amounts of mass as I would have liked and secretely I was expecting some good gains since my diet was going well. Just before getting sick I was actually talking with joe d about making some dietary changes to help this. On the positive side my strength is going up faster than my bodyweight so I'm close to deadlifting 2x bw lol.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Well you have gained a very small amount of weight, but your strength is increasing so that's a good thing.

Personally I think you are taking in too much protein and not enough carbs, especially complex carbs.

Granted, I am by no means lean, but I weight 250lbs and average "maybe" 200grams protein a day and I'm on low dose test cycle and have no trouble gaining strength or weight. Before I had ever used a single anabolic I never went over around 250-300grams a day and never had a problem gaining muscle at bodyweights ranging from 200-225lbs.

Considering you are natural and weight 173lbs I can't possibly see you needing 350grams protein a day not including the protein from any nuts/grains.

Not only that, but your total caloric intake between high carb days and high fat days is only 2800-3030 calories. When I dieted to 10% bodyfat that's how many calories I ate and I woulda kept on losing weight probably if I had stayed at that calorie level.

That's not bulking calories. Even for a lean bulk that's too low imo.

I think you would be better served going old school with true bulk/cut phases. You know what to do now to get lean and you can do a "real" bulk, but still not get near as chubby as before and then cut it back down.

Perhaps go for 8 week blasts with 4k calories a day and the high volume 5x5 program with a few extra assistance lifts thrown in like curls etc and then rip down for 2 months and repeat?

This is just a suggestion.

You made fantastic progress leaning out. Just don't get caught up in the "6 pack" above all else line of thought if your goal is to be more heavily muscled. Your bodyweight at a lean and muscular 185-195lbs I guarantee will probably require 3500-3800 cals a day to maintain because of the increased calorie burning.

 

[ExtraMile]

I've been thinking of adding in some carbs for a while and I'm going to try it. Only a small amount but I'm thinking of bringing my low carb days up to around 100g and my high carb days to 200g and just go from their. I'll add a little at a time and see what happens. I'll bring down the fats a little to compensate so my total calories may decrease. But it's an experiment and I'll see how it goes. I may be able to take the carbs even higher but it's a balancing act between gaining as much lbm as possible and spilling over into fat storage.

Just FYI I don't have a six pack to worry about lol

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Just a couple things to keep in mind Extra.

1. Total calories are as important as macro nutrient ratios when it comes to gaining. 500grams protein on a 3k calorie diet won't bulk.

2. Carbohydrate is a prime nutrient for bulking. Carbs fuel intense workouts, pull more water into the muscle etc.

3. Bulking as a natural lifter, unless you have sick genetics and most of us don't, you will have to gain fat to get bigger. Probably in a close to 1 to 1 ratio because it requires extra calories to create new muscle. AAS significantly changes how your body processes nutrients depending on compounds used and dosages which the natural lifter doesn't have the benefit of. Meaning an enhanced lifter may be able to gain muscle to fat in a 1 to .25 ratio etc compared to a natural guy. The reak trick is when you cut again and try to preserve that new muscle while shedding the fat gained.


These are things to keep in mind. I don't doubt you'll get where you want to be and experimenting will only help you learn more about what does and doesn't work for you.

Keep up the great work, EF log or not.

 

[ExtraMile]

the way I was looking at it was if I had experienced a bump in strength since dieting, then the new amounts of carbs were fuelling my workouts. I was getting stronger so obviously wasnt lacking in "fuel". The protein and fats then took care of total calories. It looks good on paper but like I said, I wasnt gaining as I would have liked. But then again, "as I would have liked" may not be realistic. I would probably be served well with some patience lol. But Ill investigate with carb intake.

As for the training change. The bodybuilder side of me is starting to come out a little lol. Im thinking of going back to legs/push/pull. Pretty low volume, something like this

(warmups not listed)

Monday
Squats 2 sets
Calves 1 rest pause set
Hamstrings 2-3 sets
Abs 3-4 sets

Wednesday
Bench 2-3 sets
Seated DB Press 1-2 sets
Weighted Dips 2 sets

Friday*
Deadlift 1 set
Chins 2 sets
BB Row 3 sets
few sets of grip work here

Im looking at it and thinking maybe Ill move calves to Wednesday...

the goal will just be to get stronger on all lifts.

*One thing that seems to have been working is the speed squats on deadlift day that I've been doing with the 5x5. Im thinking I want to keep these and do them as part of a warmup for deads. Im just in danger of cluttering up the back workout with too much "fluff"...

 

[skullcrushin22]

During a bulking or mass/strength gaining diet I believe you actually need more carbs than protein. i.e. 1.5 grams of protein/lb bodyweight and roughly 2-3 grams of carbs/lb.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I'm in complete agreement skullcrushin22.

Well, for the most part.

I feel protein requirements are rather exagerated nowadays, natural or"enhanced".

Creating an anabolic environment in the body is as much due to carbohydrate and fat intake as it is protein intake imo.

1 gram per pound of bodyweight for a natural lifter and 1.5 for an enhanced lifter seem like completely adequate amounts in my experience. I would bump those values up on a cutting diet, but in the presence of plentiful carbs and fat I don't believe more than 1.5grams protein per pounds of bodyweight is necessary.

I remember reading what Dave Tate ate to get to 300 pounds and it looked like he typically averaged less than 300grams protein a day, but ate a shitload of total calories, lot's of them being from carbs.

I'm not saying that's ideal, but he was barely getting 1 gram per pound of bodyweight and still had no problem gaining size.

This goes with my experience as well. I have never eaten more than 1.5grams per pounds and have never had trouble gaining.

 

[ExtraMile]

I remember reading what Dave Tate ate to get to 300 pounds and it looked like he typically averaged less than 300grams protein a day, but ate a shitload of total calories, lot's of them being from carbs.

yeah and look how fat he got lol. You can look at the diets of people at the top and they vary massively so how can you say one persons is the way to go?

I saw josh mcmillan's diet once and he basically ate pretty shitty with just an ass load of supplements. He only had whole food protein sources twice a day.

Then you look at scot mendelson and he's eating 12,000kcal per day with between 2-3g of protein per pound of bodyweight. 5lbs of red meat per day and 40 egg whites per day etc

Like I said though, I'm going to implement some carbs a little at a time and see how it goes.

Went to the gym today for 25mins and just hit some chins, calves and abs. I was real weak which is obv the sickness and lack of food but it was good to get moving again...

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

There are actually some similarities between all of them. They all eat high calories and high protein. That's all the similarity there needs to be for getting big and strong. I eat 1-2 whole food proteins a day when I can afford it(can of tuna or eggs) and the rest of my protein comes from milk and whey powder. It would be safe to say my protein intake is probably +80% composed of milk and whey. I don't look great, but for that much total dairy I don't look that bad.

Alot of hyped about how eating beef, or fish protein or whatever is superior to milk or whey protein or that you'll somehow make better progress eating those over whey powder. Ya, if your diet is lacking real food sources of carbohydrates, fats and at least a small amount of whole food protein that's probably not a good thing, but honestly the body doesn't give a shit whether your 30grams protein comes from whey powder or a slice of beef. The whey powder actually is significantly easier on the digestive system.

A guy like Josh Mcmillan may not be able to process a ton of whole food and in order to get his protein high requires easily digestible whey. That's kinda how I am. There's a limit too how much whole food I can shove down over the course of a day.

While Dave wasn't looking good by any means because extra muscle bulk actually makes any additional fat actually look like more than it is.

Dave was packing pro bodybuilder amounts of muscle under that fat or damn near which was my point.

You will never, ever get that big by eating a carefully controlled diet that never maximizes total caloric intake.

It's the same with all these bodybuilder guys wondering why they can't get bigger/stronger.

When I started lifting again 8 months ago this guy in the gym(well built bodybuilder) was doing 3-4 clean reps with 315.

8 months later he's still doing 3-4 reps meanwhile I'm only a couple months away from surpassing him.

I mention it to one of the other powerlifter's and he says the guy has actually been stuck on that weight for over a year...

What's funny is this is extremely typical in gyms with guys that have reached the intermediate stage of lifting.

One issue is over-training and the other issue us under eating.

There is a time and place for cutting and bulking imo. While you did a fantastic job cutting it'll take you twice as long if not more to gain the strength and size of a guy that just eats and lifts hard for a couple years straight.

I don't even look close to my best by a longshot atm. I actually a pretty handsome guy when I'm lean, but you couldn't tell it now. At the same time I'll be capable of repping 315 for 5 reps inside of a year of training.

Well built guys with low bodyfat in the neighborhood of 165-205lbs are a dime a dozen. There's nothing wrong with that, but most guys can achieve that in 6 months or less of concentrated diet and working out. Building a truly impressive muscled body takes years of training and eating to accomplish.

Anyhow, good luck with your training an diet. As I said before and despite this post, I think you will achieve your physique goals regardless.

 

[ExtraMile]

Update:

Felt pretty good on Saturday and went to work, then had a normal day on Sunday and thought the sickness had passed. Went to school today and tryed to play some basketball in sport class but had no energy despite my diet being back on track. Then had some diarrhea and completely destroyed the toilet in the changing rooms with it lol. Didnt feel great afterwards but wanted to stick it out at school so I could go to the gym in the evening lol. But then by lunch time the sweats and shivering were back aswell as headaches and had no appetite. So I had to be picked up and taken home.

so yeah fuckin sucks and looks like my training and diet is still on hold. I was psyched to train legs today too. On Wednesday it will be two weeks that I've had out of the gym - Im going crazy!