Major League Baseball and steriods...

[The Shadow]

Corn your statement was this "Pull the stats of the ERA of the top 5 game winners in each league from 1992, 1997, and 2002 and look at the era mushroom.

We all know the dinger total is up. Hell my 9 yr old knows that.

I also said this:

2 - The best pitchers era should actually drop due to the diluted hitting aspect above.


Now the roid angle would possibly come into play to see the number of homers allowed by just the top 5 guys that you listed versus the other top 5 guys from the time periods....


You ARE right though - I certainly did mispeak on the ERA going up though.......I meant to say declining

 

[rudedawg]

Here is a good info piece about why more guys a hitter the ball farther and harder:

Rise in Offence Stats - Research
Subject: In 1993, I predicted (on videotape) that the number of homeruns would sharply rise and the 60 home run level would be challenged by a number of players.

Over the past few years there has been much speculation about the cause for the sharp rise in offense numbers, especially home runs. Normally a 50 home run hitting performance would be fairly rare. Today it is becoming more common even if we do not include Sammy and Big Mac. Most of the experts claim this rise is the result of players getting stronger and the lack of good pitching. Others would blame it on juiced balls; although manufactures claim it isn't true. Research I conducted leads me to a very different conclusion. Findings from that research indicates the rise in offense stats is more due to a growing number of players who have mastered a type of swing mechanics that allows them to generate much greater bat speeds.

The study covered nine years (1988 to 1996) and required literally thousands of hours. The first two years I spent charting the swing of nearly all major league ball players. I would video tape games shown on television and replay the swings back in frame by frame action. By placing a piece of clear plastic over the screen I was able to trace the movement of each part of the hitters body along with the bats reaction. I repeated this for each frame as the swing progressed. From the time the swing was initiated to the point of contact required from 4 to 6 frames depending on the mechanics of the batter.

To insure I correctly identified the players' mechanics, I charted 15 swings for each player over a two-year period. After much trial an error, I was able to devise a system whereby I could identify players according to the characteristics of their batting mechanics. I used 39 different batting characteristics and developed 12 swing type classifications. It was truly amazing how close the performance stats were for players with the same swing classification (same basic mechanics).

I think the most interesting finding that came from the study was that all the very top hitters exhibited a swing mechanic not found in any of the other players. --- They initiate the swing with what I termed "top hand torque" (top hand pulling back toward catcher while initiating the swing). In 1988 I identified 21 players who initiated the swing with this type of mechanic --- they dominated the stats.

By 1993, the list that I could identify as attempting the mechanic had grown to 48. A quick check in 1995 indicated the list was increasing at a faster rate. Not all were executing the mechanic correctly, but a number of players were getting it close enough to cause a considerable raise in the offense stats. Top hitters like Griffey, Sosa, Bonds and Big Mac now have that mechanic fairly well down pat.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the major reason for the sharp rise in the number of homeruns and top hitters can be traced to the availability of improved VCRs that provide a good clear frame-by-frame breakdown of the baseball swing. This has allowed many players to study and emulate the rotational mechanics used by the most productive hitters.

 

[The Shadow]

Good post

 

[cure]

I agree................well except that part about you being able to crush one over the fence.

Only if you were pitching though.

But if a guy "misses" one and the fact that he did roids effects the distance the ball travels by 15 ft........all of a sudden a ball that would have went 320' now goes out of LF where the fence is 330'.

Very true and great point.

 

[thermo]

Why are people making a big fuss about pro and competetive athletes using steroids, when you have people on this very board using them for non competitive reasons and or personal amusement?

 

[rudedawg]

really shoulda' used last year's stats since this season is only 50 games in.

last year:

M Morris 22-8 3.16
C Schilling 22-6 2.98
R Johnson 21-6 2.49
M Mulder 21-8 3.45
R Clemens 20-3 3.51


'01 Average ERA for the top game winners = 3.12

still, no significant difference.

I was going to but I was just doing what Corn asked.

Bottom line it is still a game played by humans.........they might have a great AB, night, week, month, season, career but they can also have just the opposite.

In this era of baseball the hitters IMO have a huge advantage over the pitchers.

 

[rudedawg]

Only if you were pitching though.

LOL....... I didn't give up too many bombs (about 3 a year). I was a sinkerball pitcher. Usually what got me in trouble was the BB's.

 

[The Shadow]

Why are people making a big fuss about pro and competetive athletes using steroids, when you have people on this very board using them for non competitive reasons and or personal amusement?

I don't see anyone condemning it???

 

[thermo]

I don't see anyone condemning it???

Just the public in general.

 

[BackDoc]

Bob Costas' little speech on his show came across like it was the end of the world that B-ball players were using steroids. If he is so concerned about steroid use breaking his precious baseball records, then why not ban weightlifting? Why not ban Tommy John surgery? Why not ban better equipment? In a nutshell, if the records are all he cares about saving why not ban everything that was not identical to the days of old when the records were made? After all, innovations and training methods have as much to do with records being broken as steroids do, so ban that too. The batters are not the only ones using steroids, I suspect. So if the pitchers are using, would that not make it comparable and somewhat equivalent in terms of difficulty to break new records? If there was a benefit to batters only then I can see where there might be some argument. But I doubt there is any special advantage.

I for one, have never understood baseball rules. They seem frigged up to me. They let Strawberry, Gooden, Howe and others do illicit drugs on the same level as Keith Richards yet they continually get further chances to continue playing. Yet Pete Rose makes a bad gambling decision and gets banned for life from baseball. Where's the sense in that? Yeah, let's sweep coke use under the rug and proclaim the evils of gambling and steroid use.