critique my back and shoulder routine

[Gymbob]

Hey bro's, can you please take a look at this routine for back and shoulders and see what you think. Reason im posting this is because i feel i need something different for overall delts as they never seem to get sore and seem to be lagging a little in comparison with the traps.


Wednesday (shoulders & abs)

shoulder press (strength master machine) 3 sets
dumbell front raise (3 sets)
dumbell lateral raise (3 sets)
barbell upright rows (3 sets)
dumbell shrugs\gripless shrugs on calf machine (3 sets)

then 6 sets for abs

***back and bi's***

Bent over rows (3 sets)
seated rows\T bar rows (3 sets)
deadlift (3 sets)
lat pulldowns (3 sets)
reverse pec dec (rear delts) 2 sets
seated rear lateral raise with dumbells for rear delts (2 sets)

then 6 sets for biceps


Just a couple of questions?

Do you think im doing enough volume for lats? or should i throw in some chins or close grip pulldowns?

Should i incorperate rear delts in with the wednesday routine?


Thanks.

 

[gymtime]

I think your volume is high on everything. A good rule of thumb is three excercises for larger muscle groups (back, chest), two for smaller (arms, shoulders). It doesn't sound like much, but the point is to keet the reps/sets low and weights high. If done correctly, it's enough.

For Shoulders:

Do regular presses with DBs or bar, lose the machine.
Do one db raise excercise, not two.

For Back:

Do the deads first. It's best to do compound excercises when your the freshest.
Do bent rows OR seated rows, not both.
Vary your grip direction (underhand, overhand, neutral) and position (wide, close) on every row excercise (that includes pulldowns).

 

[Gymbob]

Thanks for the info mate, ive always done 12 sets for large groups and 6-9 for smaller groups. Do you think i should do 4 sets per exercise and 12 sets total for example?

The reason i do the shoulder raises on the machine is because of not having to concentrate balancing the weight thus more weight moved, do you think there is any benefit doing dumbell over barbell? because i might move over to the barbell for these for a more free weight movement.

The reason i do the front dumbell raises and lateral dumbell raises is to attack the front and lateral of the deltoids, is this overkill?

thanks.

 

[gymtime]

No more than 3 sets per excercise, 10,8,6 split, large or small. Your last rep of your last set should make you want to die.

All that balancing you are doing is what makes freeweights better than machines. The weights are not comparable so don't worry about that.

Your upright rows are enough for front delts. I'd do them one week, then front raises the next, lat raises the next, something like that.

 

[Gymbob]

So do you think i will be hitting the lateral side of the delts enough with the upright rows and shoulder press if i dont do the dumbell lateral's?

I think there is a problem with my routine somewhere because my front and side delts are never really sore and dont get all that much of a pump.

Any more feedback greatly appreciated.

 

[Belial]

Don't forget, if you have a chest routine that involves any sort of flat or incline press, your anterior delts will get hit plenty.

DB overhead presses are absolutely killer for your medial delts; you should definitely feel the pain after three sets of those... For shoulders, DBs are king. Smith machines, regular machines, etc.... all way to easy to cheat on (Using the rest of your body to push through a sticking point, favoring one arm heavily over the other and using body torsion to compensate, etc.) Part of the work the deltoid is doing during a DB press is preventing the weight from falling outwards; if you're using a weight on a track, you're missing out on this part of the exercise.

gymtime's got some good advice, but don't tell the old coot I said that.

 

[cure]

Personally, I believe your doing too many exercises to try to target every area of that specific muscle. I don't believe that's really necessary.

shoulder press (strength master machine) 3 sets
dumbell front raise (3 sets)
dumbell lateral raise (3 sets)
barbell upright rows (3 sets)
dumbell shrugs\gripless shrugs on calf machine (3 sets)

I wouldnt do front raises since front delts are hit when doing chest exercises and because upright rows also put a strain on your front delts.

Bent over rows (3 sets)
seated rows\T bar rows (3 sets)
deadlift (3 sets)
lat pulldowns (3 sets)
reverse pec dec (rear delts) 2 sets
seated rear lateral raise with dumbells for rear delts (2 sets)

if your looking to gain mass on your back i would throw all rear delt exercises out the window. I would maybe do 1 of the 2 but thats about it. When you say Bent over rows i'm figuring your using a barbell. How about using dumbell rows. I would replace tbar rows with one arm bent over rows. This is how i would do it.

shoulder press (dumbells) 3 sets
dumbell lateral raise (3 sets)
barbell upright rows (3 sets)
dumbell shrugs\gripless shrugs on calf machine (3 sets)

lat pulldowns (as a warmup)(3 sets)
Bent over rows (3 sets)
One arm Bent over rows(3 sets)
deadlift (3 sets)

 

[gymtime]

....gymtime's got some good advice, but don't tell the old coot I said that.

Just can't help yourself can you?

 

[SSAlexSS]

Your back workout is too high volume.

My back workout kicks butt... I have gaine so much so fast off it... Seriously 5 sets for back is enough.

My back workout

1 set of chin ups
1 set of reverse close grip pulldowns
1 set of bent over barbel rows
1 set of bent over dumbell rows
1 set of deadlifts 1-6 reps.

That workout gave me some serious mass and width in record time. I omitted my size gains because I don't want to sound egoistical. I am a nice guy....

 

[Gymbob]

Thanks for all the info everyone, i think i'll scrap the front raises since its right what you said that they do get a good workout with the chest.

I did my back workout today and i did the deadlifts first as mentioned and took out the seated rows\T bar rows and just did the barbell rows. I might alternate dumbell\barbell rows that sounds good, although i prefer the barbell rows as i feel you can isolate the upper back a little better.

As for the rear delts i just did 3 sets of those on the reverse pec dec machine.

Thanks again